«The First Stage Is Usually Characterized By The Creature Feeling A Dark Joy In Its New Powers. It Is

Kneel

I wish Tav had dialogue options at this moment like:

I love you.

I trust you.

Tav is literally going to die in a couple of minutes. I want Tav to have the chance to say something before Astarion starts turning them.

Well, in any case, he knows that… Astarion: You are so beautiful... And you will be beautiful forever. Thank you for trusting me.

So impressed by a tremendous work that Kate Kotova did putting this massive analysis together. Brava!

The community is forever in your debt, Kate!

Neil Newbon on Ascended Astarion

Neil: I do love the fact that I got to create kind of two characters in one.

Blue Owl Medic: I was just thinking that. Yeah, you did.

Neil: So now that the game has come out and the whole thing, we can talk a little bit more freely about the game. No real spoilers, folks, because obviously people are still playing through it, which is amazing, including me. But there is an ascended Astarion, which people probably know, as well as an unascended Astarion. I'm not going to go into details of why, although it is all over the internet, but anyway.

But one of the fun things that I got to do with the directors and the writer as well, with Stephen, and also the other writers that contributed towards Astarion, [is that they] wrote this ascended storyline. And so, when I came across that, I realized that 'Oh, his voice probably changes as well, because his whole status changes and his whole situation changes and his power changes.' So I got to do something else, because that would also be an easy way to switch between one and the other.

And so I decided that, well, I've always talked about Astarion being very theatrical. So what if Astarion's unascended spawn is theatrical, and ascended Astarion is operatic, and I use that as a sort of launchpad. So that one is theatre, one is opera. So the two are the same kind of things, but essentially… Do you know what I mean? It's like that kind of thing.

I offered that up to the directors and they really liked it. Kirsty Gilmore was the first person who I tried it with. I think it was Kirsty Gilmore, who is an amazing director. I'm pretty sure it was her session I did the first Lord Astarion and we set the tone there. And that was really cool.

BOM: And I don't know if that was your choice, but he also holds himself differently.

Neil: Yes, he does, he definitely holds himself differently.

BOM: He stands way more upright, his chest is a little more out

Neil: Yes, that's status. That's all Laban work. We're just using completely different status shift changes as well. So whereas he has a lot of flow and all that kind of stuff and it's theatrical and distracting--it's always 'look over here and don't see how I really feel' with spawn Astarion.

With Lord Astarion, we talked a lot about the idea that the cover is now off completely. So that you see him at his most terrible, and it's completely honest and he doesn't have to pretend anymore. So he loses a lot of the flamboyance and the fun of the theatricality, which is all a distraction anyway. That's all distraction so you don't see how he's hurt and damaged and his vulnerability. Lord Astarion doesn't need that anymore. So we just thought, okay, now *mimics taking off a mask* it's off. He doesn't need to pretend, he doesn't need to do too much. It's all about the status and that kind of stuff.

It was a really fun experience to take a character I've been doing for a long time and then flip it. And that was, again, brilliant writing by Larian, brilliant storytelling by them all and brilliant ideas. So yeah, it was really fun.

--from Neil's February 1, 2024 twitch stream

Ascended Astarion and how he's not like Cazador

Regarding the claim that the lore of vampire brides is supposedly outdated because it’s based on Van Richten's Guide to Vampires, published in 1991, and that this lore isn’t mentioned in the current edition of DnD 5e, specifically in the 2021 edition of Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft:

First of all, vampire brides are also mentioned in Van Richten’s Monster Hunter’s Compendium from 1999.

But most importantly, the 2021 edition of Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft directly references Van Richten's Guide to Vampires.

So…

If we disregard the lore of Ravenloft (even though the game clearly alludes to it) and focus solely on the game itself:

Player: How does someone become a vampire, exactly? Astarion: It's simple. Just find a vampire that will drink your blood and turn you into a vampire spawn: their obedient puppet. In theory, the next step is to drink their blood. Once you've done that, you're free and a true vampire. Player: 'In theory'? Astarion: People think the biggest threat to a vampire is a cleric with a stake. It's not. The biggest threat to a vampire is another vampire. They're scheming, paranoid, power-hungry beasts. So why would any vampire give up control over a spawn to create a competitor?

Player: So they bite you, you bite them? Astarion: Yes and no. The problem is once you're a vampire spawn, they completely control you. They have to allow you to bite them. And why would they do that? Vampires are power-hungry creatures. They won't lose a servant to create a competitor. Trust me. It doesn't happen.

Once AA gives Tav his blood, they can no longer be considered a spawn—according to the lore, they become a true vampire. This is confirmed both by in-game dialogues and the D&D 5E lore on which the game is based.

Astarion: Nearly two hundred years and I never came back. Not since the night I woke up down there. I had to punch a hole in the coffin and claw my way through six feet of dirt. Then when I finally broke the surface, retching up dirt and congealed blood, Cazador was waiting. From that day on I was his. Until today. Moreover, we never see AA mentally controlling Tav the way Cazador controlled his spawns—which would be undeniable proof of their status as a spawn. The game only presents a dialogue about freedom, which does not contradict the concept of Tav as a bride but also does not confirm any magical control that could prove otherwise.

So if you believe that the Bride Theory is unfounded and that the process of becoming a vampire bride doesn’t align with what is shown in the game, then consider this: it has even less in common with the process of becoming a spawn. The turning into a spawn is described in detail in the game, and clearly not without reason—and Tav's/Dark Urge's turning is not just different in some aspects, it has absolutely no similarities with it.

No matter which lore you take, Tav is not a spawn.

Maybe I should make a post with counterarguments to all the most common arguments against the Bride Theory.

Hello, Welch's spawn. I think when it comes to ascension, people tend to make up too much.

«He hides his hurt and insecurities behind that mask of the villain, behind his facade of power and dominance. Under it all he’s still the frightened spawn cowering in the kennels.»

Neil Newbon: We're just using completely different status shift changes as well. So whereas he has a lot of flow and all that kind of stuff and it's theatrical and distracting — it's always 'look over here and don't see how I really feel' with spawn Astarion.

With Lord Astarion, we talked a lot about the idea that the cover is now off completely. So that you see him at his most terrible, and it's completely honest and he doesn't have to pretend anymore. So he loses a lot of the flamboyance and the fun of the theatricality, which is all a distraction anyway. That's all distraction so you don't see how he's hurt and damaged and his vulnerability. Lord Astarion doesn't need that anymore. So we just thought, okay, now mimics taking off a mask it's off. He doesn't need to pretend, he doesn't need to do too much.

It’s no secret Astarion hates himself. Like he deals with a lot of insecurities and self loathing. He just puts on an act of self confidence and narcissism to properly play the role of sexy vampire.

But I think a lot of people miss when he Ascends this gets so much worse. Not only does he still think he’s only good for sex and has nothing to offer beyond that. Now he’s a monster, not by force but by choice. He choose to become a monster. Now he’s expanded his act from sexy vampire to evil sexy vampire. He’s playing the villain because that’s what he thinks he is. And as we know he’s really not that great at acting.

I think it’s interesting everyone always talks about seeing through Astarion’s facade but when it comes to him ascending they’re so quick to fall for his act all over again.

There’s the line “if you stay with him he will always see you as degrading yourself” in his post ascension romance scene. A lot of people interpret it at face value as he hates and looks down on Tav. But I think it’s miss understood because he could never hate Tav as much as he hates himself. Infact I’d say he has Tav put up on the highest pedestal. He sees them as the kindest most caring person in the whole world. He adores them and holds them in the highest regard. That’s why them wanting to be with him so much they would even put themselves beneath him is the ultimate degradation. It’s also why he feels he has to turn them because he doesn’t believe there’s any reason they’d choose to stay with him of their own free will while at the same time he can’t bare to loose them. He can’t wrap his head around the idea that you could actually love a monster like him.

If you say you want freedom in the reunion party he panics. Why would you want freedom? To leave him? You want to leave him? Why? When he’s given you the only things he’s good for; luxury and sex. That’s the only reason you choose him in the first place. He’s desperate to make Tav happy. With out Tav he has nothing. He is nothing.

He hides his hurt and insecurities behind that mask of the villain, behind his facade of power and dominance. Under it all he’s still the frightened spawn cowering in the kennels. And there’s no one he’s more desperate to hide this from than Tav lest they realize their mistake of caring for him and leave.

«Vampires differ in their motivations when creating offspring. Some fledglings do it accidentally, not yet understanding the consequences of killing a foe. Others do it to create slaves for themselves. Some few seem to need contact with members of their own kind and create companions. This latter group is more likely to become the sentimental "parents" described above and is hence most likely to meet destruction at the hands of their offspring.»

«When a vampire is destroyed, all semblance of control over its offspring immediately vanishes. Most offspring will immediately go about their own business. I have heard of some rare creatures who have sought the destroyers of their creator and wreaked vengeance on them. I find this somewhat hard to believe because it implies a sense of loyalty, even love of a kind, between vampires. Still, stranger things have proved to be true.»

«An especially rare and unique relationship between vampires is in that of the "Bride" or "Groom." Actually, considering that the fact all vampires were once mortal, it is almost surprising that this phenomenon is not more prevalent. No matter what changes undeath has wrought, some vestiges of mortal thoughts and aspirations still survive, l am sure. Eternity can weigh heavily on the spirit-even the spirit of a vampire. Of all the burdens of immortality, perhaps the greatest is loneliness. To whom can a vampire bare its soul and admit its fears? With whom can the vampire vent some of the intense sensuality that seems to pervade its breed? From whom can it receive consolation for the past, comfort for the present, and hope for the future? An eternity of solitude can be an eternity of pain.»

Astarion: I did miss you, you know. There is a sense of loneliness that comes with power. We did share a wonderful adventure, you and I. A pity to see it end, in some ways. But we have great new lives stretching out before us. And great new adventures to go on. I will never forget the time we spent together, though. And I know you'll never forget me.

«It is no wonder, then, that vampires sometimes long for a special companion. Fortunately for these tortured souls--and unfortunately for their mortal victims-vampires are capable of creating such companions. These special minions, if such a term truly applies, are known as "Brides" and "Grooms." These terms may seem inappropriate, carrying with them as they do the emotional "baggage" of love and marriage. While marriage is not an issue, a form of love, or at least of emotional bonding, is involved, so the terms are not as inappropriate as they may seem at first.» Player: You made me your spawn... What is going to happen to me? Astarion: Spawn is an ugly word. I really do prefer consort.

«Creating a bride or groom, although seemingly a simple process, requires an exhausting exercise of much power by the creating vampire. For this reason, only vampires of advanced age and capability can even assay this procedure. A bride or groom can be created only by a vampire of age category Ancient or greater, and not even all of those are capable of doing so.»

Gale: So, Astarion. I hear your relationship has taken on a new aspect recently... Astarion: My life has taken on a new aspect. It is only natural that my relationships change as well. As the Vampire Ascendant, I can grant my lover immortality, and bind them to me forever. Raphael: In full, the contract states that Cazador will be granted knowledge of an infernal ritual so vile it has never been performed. The Rite of Profane Ascension. It promises to be a marvellous ceremony. Very elaborate, incredibly ancient, and entirely diabolical. If he completes the rite, he will become a new kind of being - the Vampire Ascendant. All the strengths of his vampiric form will be amplified, and alongside them he will enjoy the luxuries of the living. The arousals and appetites of man will return to him, and unlike Astarion, he will have no need of a parasite to protect him from the sun.

«The first step requires that the vampire find an appropriate mortal to be the bride. […] Usually this problem solves itself. Very rare is the vampire who decides in isolation, "I will make a bride," and then seeks out a mortal to fill the bill. In the vast majority of cases, the process occurs in the reverse order. The vampire is drawn emotionally to a mortal and decides, because of the strength of this emotion, to make her his bride. The nature of this emotion can vary widely. It may simply be hormonal lust (after all, the physiological systems related to such effects in mortals are still present, and sometimes still functional, in vampires). It may be an obsession dating from the days before the vampire became what he now is, as is the case with Strahd von Zarovich's obsession with women who resemble his lost Tatyana.»

Astarion: Ugh. Strahd wouldn't put up with this shit.

«In these cases, the vampire creates its bride in cold blood, for the sole purpose of satisfying its own desires. Sometimes, however, the emotion may be close to what mortals classify as love.

The happiness of the vampire becomes tied up with the prospective bride, and its well-being depends on hers.»

Astarion: You are my consort, and I will see you living the very best life. Even if you don't appreciate it. Astarion: I don't intend to die, if you don't. I truly believe we can best the brain, united like this.

«In these cases, the vampire might actually believe it is bestowing a gift when it turns the mortal into its bride— the gift of freedom from aging and death.»

Player: Well, I suppose it cannot be undone now. Astarion: You are stronger now. Better. You will thank me one day, I am sure.

Player: I hoped you'd learn to love me. Astarion: Who's to say I don't? I'm willing to share all of this with you. What's that if not love?

Player: I wanted a good time, that's all. Astarion: What do you mean? Think of the things I can offer you! You're not going to say no to that, surely?

Player: Then stop joking around and let's sleep together. Astarion: You've earned it. But don't you want more - don't you want eternity? One more bite is all it would take?

«To actually create the bride, the vampire bestows what is known as the "Dark Kiss". It samples the blood of its mortal paramour-once, twice, thrice draining her almost to the point of death.»

«This process causes the subject no pain; in fact, it has been described as the most euphoric, ecstatic experience, in comparison to which all other pleasures fade into insignificance.»

Astarion: Tonight, I shall drink every drop of your blood. Own your body, kill your mind. It will only hurt a bit, the pleasure will be far greater than the pain.

Astarion: I remember how it hurt when I turned to a vampire. My body writhed and warped while I was utterly helpless, the grip of death owned my heart as it beat its last.

«Just as the subject is about to slip into the terminal coma from which there is no awakening, the vampire opens a gash in its own flesh-often in its throat, wrist, or chest (being near the heart)-and holds the subject's mouth to the wound.»

Player: What exactly happened? Astarion: You were drained dry, and at the height of your delirium, I granted you one drop of my own blood.

Player: Does this mean I won't be able to walk in the sun if my tadpole is removed? Astarion: Don't you worry. You have supped of my blood. It will be no trouble to extend a fragment of my protection to you. Player: Will you still drink my blood? Astarion: Of course I will, and you'll drink mine. I can't wait to taste your lips after you've tasted me.

Player: How does someone become a vampire, exactly? Astarion: It's simple. Just find a vampire that will drink your blood and turn you into a vampire spawn: their obedient puppet. In theory, the next step is to drink their blood. Once you've done that, you're free and a true vampire. Player: 'In theory'? Astarion: People think the biggest threat to a vampire is a cleric with a stake. It's not. The biggest threat to a vampire is another vampire. They're scheming, paranoid, power-hungry beasts. So why would any vampire give up control over a spawn to create a competitor? Player: So they bite you, you bite them? Astarion: Yes and no. The problem is once you're a vampire spawn, they completely control you. They have to allow you to bite them. And why would they do that? Vampires are power-hungry creatures. They won't lose a servant to create a competitor. Trust me. It doesn't happen.

«It is at this point that the creator-vampire's strength is most sorely tested. He is weakened by his own blood loss, and also by his own rapture as the "victim" of a dark kiss. Overcoming the sudden loss of strength and the inclinations of lust, the vampire must pull her away from its own wound, hopefully without harming her, before she has overfed. Should the subject be allowed to feed for too long (more than 2 rounds), she is driven totally and incurably insane, and will die in agony within 24 hours.

The first moment that the bride realizes the ugly truth about her new nature can be highly traumatic, unless her creator takes steps to ease her acceptance.»

Player: I'm already a Slayer and a squid - this is minor in comparison. Astarion: Terrifying and brilliant. I knew you'd take it in your stride.

«Any vampire can have only one bride or groom at a time. A vampire is physically incapable of creating another bride or groom while it has a companion already bound to it in this relationship. If the vampire wishes to create another bride or groom, it must either destroy its current bride or groom or follow the ritual described later to dissolve the bond between them.»

Minthara: Would you ever consider sharing the gift of immortality with me, Astarion? Astarion: I think not. That is for me and my darling to share. Minthara: If they have prevented your eyes and fangs from wandering to other necks, it must be a special bond indeed.

«Although there are some folk tales that describe the bride of a vampire as its slave, in much the same way that offspring are slaves, a bride is free-willed from the moment of her creation. The creator vampire does have great influence over the bride, however, although this control is totally nonmagical.

Newly created brides are generally ignorant of their own capabilities. If in life they heard folk tales and myths about vampires, they might have some vague conception, but often these tales are totally wrong. The bride is effectively dependent—totally dependent—on her creator to learn how to survive as a vampire. This obviously gives the creator great power over the bride.

By lying to her or bending the truth, he can convince her that she must obey his every order or suffer horrible consequences.»

Player: Spawn? I want to be a true vampire. Astarion: And you will! All in good time. But we mustn't rush these things. You may need time to adjust.

Player: And you promise you'll make me a full vampire soon? Astarion: My darling, of course! I want nothing more. Node Context: overly sincere - he doesn't really mean it Player: Cazador could compel you - can you compel me? Astarion: Why would I need to? You're going to be wonderfully obedient.

Player: I think we should break up. Astarion: Hahaha! Don't be stupid, darling. You're mine, remember? The tadpole is gone, which means your future is mine to decide. NodeContext: Genuine laugh - the player can't get away from him. Not even if they want to. «She saw me not as a protector, but as a rival, as a slave master. And she dedicated herself to freeing herself from my yoke.»

Aurelia: The bond's hold. He owns us. We have no choice, we must obey. Get out of here, Astarion, before… NodeContext: Last phrase is the moment Cazador takes control of them. They are giving Astation a final warning to run away. NodeContext: vampires were compelled by cazador to attack the player Astarion: He has no power over me anymore. Godey: You think you're free? Then let's tighten your chain. Narrator: All that you've seen since the crash - all the wonders and horrors - suddenly seem inconsequential. Only one thing matters. Cazador - your master, your lord, your creator. His will tightens around you once again, and it is as if you never escaped him. Astarion: You have become your own master. Deny him.Narrator: And then it is inside you, clogging your nostrils and throat with a sickening sweetness. You cannot fight back. You cannot reject it.

Narrator: Cazador's presence rises in your mind, a towering red wave that seems capable of drowning the world. Narrator:  And then it is inside you, clogging your nostrils and throat with a sickening sweetness. You cannot fight back. You cannot reject it. Narrator: And it shatters your will entirely, smashing your defences and leaving you broken and gasping for air. You cannot deny him.

«With time, and through experimentation, the bride might find out the true level of control her creator has over her—that is, none. She is still in a very inferior position, of course, because she is a Fledgling and her creator is at least an Ancient.»

Player: I'm sorry I kind of disappeared. I didn't mean to leave you like that. Astarion: Oh my dear, you didn't leave me - I let you go. If I'd wanted you to stay I only had to say the word and you would have been back by my side. But I'm not some controlling monster. I wanted to give you space to see what else is out there, make your own mistakes, and return to me ready to fully appreciate our life together. Anyway, I have had more than enough to keep me busy while you were off gallivanting in another plane.

«Some creator vampires—particularly those who created the bride out of love—will be totally honest with their creation, depending on loyalty, friendship, and even reciprocated love to stop the bride from trying to bring about their destruction. This is probably the most beneficial situation for both vampires, because two creatures cooperating are much more effective than two creatures involved in machinations against each other. A vampire and bride who truly love and trust each other make a team that is exceptionally difficult to defeat!»

Astarion: I may have power, but it would be nothing without you. You complete me.  And together, we are unstoppable. So Heavens help the fool that tries to get in our way. Player: None would dare, my love. Astarion: I almost wish they would. It's been some time since we've seen a real challenge.

Source: Van Richten's Guide to Vampires. TSR, 1991.

Chapters:

XI: Relationships Between Vampires: Progenitor and Offspring. XII: Relationships Between Vampires: Vampire Brides and Grooms. P.S.: A Reddit user shared an Easter egg referencing the Ravenloft lore and Brides in the game, which I hadn't seen before. I'll add it as an addition to the post:

[An excerpt from The True and Impossible Adventures of Tenebrux Morrow, a pulp serial following the 'real-life' exploits of an interplanar ship's captain. The real Captain Morrow is known never to have left her native Waterdeep and emerges from her rooms at the Yawning Portal only to exchange scrawled manuscripts for fresh meals and ink.] Much is made of Barovia's gloomy climate. It is said the mists there confuse the mind and torment the soul, binding travellers in a grip of such despair that escape is impossible to contemplate. As the New Bride parted that heavy fog, I confess that I felt no such malaise beyond the onset of a rather stuffy nose. The same, I fear, could not be said of my crew. Among those who had not already cast themselves overboard, the gibbering and weeping became such that I was forced to bind them to the mast entire, and navigate my fair Bride alone. I went in search of that plane's dark master, having been informed that even my ship could not hope to breach the planar boundaries without permission. And so I probed the mists, defiant at the helm and belting out a lively shanty of my own composition The invitation did not long go unanswered. He appeared like the passing of a shadow overhead, sudden and terrifying. Or certainly, that was his intention - but once the mutual assurances of destruction were dispensed with, we found in one another kindred spirits, and fell to conversing in earnest. At length, a price for my passage was agreed. Of that price, and that man, I will say only this: he is surprisingly excellent company, given the stories - and the teeth do not get in the way nearly so much as one would think.

Ascended Astarion x Consort week challenge. Day 2 "Devotion".

A few months ago, I created a new Tav, Evara, to go specially with Ascended Astarion. I didn’t think but I really fell in love with their story and I like this couple as much as the one formed by Lyra and Spawn Astarion.

I wanted to do something simple and cute for my first fanart of them, referring to the parallel made in the game between Astarion and red dragons. They are known for wanting more and more, being pretentious, believing themselves above all forms of life and to watch jealously over their treasure... Doesn’t that remind you of a certain vampire Lord ? 🙃

The fact that Astarion calls his love « my treasure » is not a coincidence and I love to see how the developers have really thought of everything ! So here is the vampire ascendant and his most precious treasure... I pity anyone who would try to steal it 🫣