Ian & Barbara Moments 2/?

jana

LUCIFER | 2.02 “Liar, Liar, Slutty Dress on Fire”

i'm not a river song apologist. river song apologism doesn't exist. she has nothing to apologize for

river song is The character to me because she's trying to be soo mysterious (it's like 50/50 on her wanting to be mysterious, and it simply happening due to the time travelling back to front nature of their lives) and sexy and so capable and all of these things and she IS, obviously but also. i don't feel like we talk enough about how weird she is?? how truly extraordiary she is. river song reads books like "history's finest exploding restaurants: the best food for free, skip the coffee" and also randomly has a fez in her bag (it's 11's). her and her husband are not only married to each other, but also both married to cleopatra. she married a guy because she wants to kill him and scoop out his brains for the most valuable diamond in the universe. she's my dream girl.

“which of you is song?” jokes on u, they’re BOTH doctor song 

The Time Traveler’s Wife: Episode One (2022) / Doctor Who: Silence in the Library (2010)

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I love that - thanks to one small line - their first kiss gives us a huge look at what kind of partner (and then later husband) the Eleventh Doctor is.

'What, that's it?'

First of all bear in mind from his perspective, yes they've gotten closer, but he's still suspecting that River might kill him sooner rather than later. It's understandable that some trust issues linger and thus he's still a bit quick with the casually dark (and cruel) demeanour.

River knows that. She knows where he is in his timeline. She knows that, despite how much he flirts with her (and he flirts with her A LOT), he is not her husband, not yet the man that loves her and he's not even the man that knows her. So why does his short goodbye confuse her?

Because this small line tells us that not only have they been dating (from his perspective) between DOTM and AGMGTW but they've been dating physically. To River, this short-fuzed ball of trust-issues is essentially not only her husband but also her actual boyfriend.

Meaning that the Doctor, before he became the doting idiot husband we saw in TATM/TNOTD and even before he knew who she was, never dropped her off after a date without at least (!) kissing her goodbye.

And I'm really putting the emphasis on never because River would otherwise not risk asking for a kiss, if there had been any doubt in her mind that this Doctor isn't a Doctor she had been dating. So what does that tell us?

Despite how much this fandom likes to paint the picture of the evil River who forced herself on the Doctor, she is never the one to initiate (physical) intimacy. She expected to be kissed, she expected the Doctor to kiss her because that's what the Doctor does. Husband or not.

And it's so ingrained in their relationship that even when he showed his honest confusion, River assumed he must be acting coy on purpose to get *her* to kiss *him* for once. And well it worked, intentionally or not, River complied because why wouldn't she? It's what they do.

Until of course she is forced to realise that it might not be what they do for much longer. This was his first kiss; so she might not see the boyfriend version of her Doctor very often from now on, if at all.

But ignoring all the insanely depressing angst of how that scene ended, yes we saw an end for River but we also saw where the Doctor's pre-AGMGTW dating spree and thus the affectionate idiot began because he makes it quite clear that he's up for more. (pun intended)

I wish we could've seen more of their time together. Unfortunately 98% of it happens off-screen but the point of this thread is to show that, even if most of it is off-screen, the show has made the nature of their relationship and the nature of the Doctor's feelings very clear. Moffat's writing style is quick-paced and certainly assumes that the audience isn't too stupid to keep up. (wonder how that worked out) And small lines like these contain so much vital information that, for some people, it's easy to overlook. But all we need to know is right there. The Eleventh Doctor dated River prior to AGMGTW, definitely prior to TWORS; they've been intimate for two hundred (!!!!) years from his perspective before he married her and he is the one to initiate that intimacy. That's all. 🥰

original post on X by @/eIevenriver (who writes the bestest Doctor x River threads ever)