After Learning About That Quote On Astarion's Shirt In EA, I Couldn't Stop Thinking About It. So I Had

Ascension or Not?

(12/? part of “Astarion: In Search of True Self” — [masterpost here])

Trigger warning: Spawn route / Ascension reflection

The Rite of Profane Ascension is the culmination of The Pale Elf’s story - everything has been building toward this: the fear, the shame, the survival instincts, the longing to be seen, the need to finally break free. It’s the most dangerous moment for Astarion - the fork in the road that will change everything.

We’ve already talked about how much Astarion longs to be truly seen. That’s why it hurts so deeply when he isn’t. When Tav misreads him - sees only the seducer, the witty, wicked vampire spawn - it encourages him to stay inside that mask. And he will, because that’s how he survived for two hundred years. But if Tav reaches gently toward what’s underneath, if they speak to the heart of him… he starts to hope: “Could there really be another way?”

The desire to be seen for more than he was made to be is so strong in him that it feels like he is constantly unconsciously searching for it. Not just admired or desired but truly known - it is woven into everything he does. But the tragedy is, the version of himself that he crafted to survive - charming, flirtatious, in control - is so convincing that even he sometimes believes that’s all he has to be. No wonder many players assume Ascension is what Astarion really wants.

That’s why the ritual is so dangerous. It is the ultimate temptation that seemingly can make all his fears disappear, promising eternal power. But it doesn’t free him. It traps him even deeper. Because it is the culmination of Cazador's legacy that he taught him: that power is everything, that it gives you the right to take and abuse, that to be weak is to be worthless and hurt, that vulnerability is pathetic. There is no place for kindness or love in this world.

If Tav helps him to go through with the ritual, it might seem like they’re validating his choice. But what it tells him is: you, as you are - frightened, hurt, still healing but craving connection - are not enough. That the only version of him others can value is the cold, invulnerable one.

It confirms his worst fear, so he clings to it harder.

That’s why, for me, Ascension isn’t Astarion’s "true self." It’s his trauma self - the final mask locked in place by a diabolical ritual, that becomes his new self forever. It's not freedom - it’s losing. Losing to fear. Losing to Cazador’s values. Losing the hope that was beginning to bloom.

But if Tav sees past those layers of defences and stops him - gently, lovingly - it’s not about forcing him to be "good." It’s about saying: I see you. And you're enough, just as you are. You don't need this to be free, to be loved.

That’s why it’s so moving when Tav instead gently reminds him that there is another way, reflecting his humanity back to him. In that route, Astarion finally allows himself to believe he’s more than what Cazador made him: not because he takes power, but because he rejects it and breaks that cycle.

When Astarion walks away from the Rite, it’s not weakness. It’s the first step toward becoming someone he never thought he could be - not a tool, not a monster, not someone else's shadow, but someone who can start discovering his real self. It’s a newfound freedom that finally allows him to start living again.

I want to say something about the Ascended route, too. I haven’t played it myself, only read and watched some bits of it - and maybe I might talk about it more later. But I’ll share just this for now.

For me, Ascension is a very sad and lonely choice for Astaion. By that, he forever separates himself from everyone else, from any genuine connection he could have had with the rest of the world.

Yes, Ascended Astarion still “cares” about Tav - they are still important to him. Maybe the most important person in his world, because he is not likely to let anyone in anymore. But it's not the same - not without that warmth, not when he owns them now. He puts them in the position he once fought so desperately to escape - completely dependent on someone else’s power. He might still be kind. But they are not equals. And I can’t help but wonder how long that kindness would last.

Yes, he can walk in the sun. He can taste food, enjoy luxuries. But without healing, those things are hollow. How long until the joy of novelty wears off? Until the hunger for power inside grows stronger again, forever insatiable? Until it can't satisfy him anymore, and he turns toward the one who cannot leave or say no? Love is not control.

So, for me, persuading Astarion to give up that idea is not forcing him against his nature - it's reminding him of it. Tav cares about him and doesn't want him to corner himself in a choice he might regret later. It's not about moralizing or controlling his choices, but about wanting him to be happy in the long run. If Astarion had made a decision in anger or desperation, its result would have haunted him forever.

That’s why I don’t even like calling it the “Spawn ending.” To me, it’s simply Astarion’s ending. The one where he can finally become who he truly is. Himself.

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The Need to be Seen

(6/? part of “Astarion: In Search of True Self” — [masterpost here])

One of Astarion’s deepest longings, woven through all his fears and defenses, is the need to be seen. Not as a monster. Not as a tool. Not as an object of desire. Just seen. As he is.

And when he finally meets someone who is patient, kind and genuinely trying to understand him, he takes a leap of faith and begins to unravel - step by step - hoping that they’ll stay. Isn’t that incredibly brave?

The mirror scene, his confession - another subtle way of revealing the weakness and asking: “Will you still stay if I’m a mess?” “If I don’t shine and sparkle, will I still matter to you?”

He is afraid that if they see all the wounds and weaknesses behind, they will turn away and leave. Maybe that’s why he decides to find out - better sooner than later. 

It is really amazing how vulnerable Astarion is with Tav and many signs are showing that it is limited to them only: for example, when you test your love in the Circus he gets anxious and irritated if you share to much of his personal information, like "yeah, true but not in front of a random stranger!"

And his vulnerability seems reserved only for Tav (I haven't played as Durge yet). In the Circus test, for example, if you reveal too much about him, he immediately gets irritated - "Yes, that’s true, but not in front of a random stranger!"

There are dialogues in the early game when Astarion openly shares facts about his past, but he does it with a challenging attitude, like, "yeah, it was like that, so what you gonna do about it?" - almost like testing Tav's limits. "Will they still keep being kind to me if they know this? What about now?" - actually, that's what children with a traumatic background often do; they tend to misbehave and push boundaries to see if that adult really is safe or they can hurt them if provoked. (Maybe adults might react similarly, too, but personally, I am only familiar with this trauma response in children.)

Even in early dialogues, when he shares pieces of his past, he often does so with a defiant tone. “Yes, it was like that - what of it?” Like he’s daring Tav to flinch. "Will they still be kind to me if they know this? What about now?" It reminds me of how some children with trauma test the adults around them, pushing limits to see if someone is truly safe.

Astarion’s longing to be seen also reveals another fear: being seen as less than he pretends to be. All the performance - the charm, the wit, the sensuality - is his armour hiding underneath someone who has been terrified and out of control for two hundred years. And if someone notices that, he might find himself abandoned or fallen into the hands of those in power yet again.

And this is why, I believe, he seems to look down on those he perceives as weak: those in need and suffering. Even others who share his fate as vampire spawn. Because looking at them is like looking in a mirror he can’t bear. He is afraid to see himself in them, to feel less again, feel powerless. And that others will see him that way, too. That Tav will see him that way.

And if he sees himself in them, he risks crumbling. So the mask stays on. That resentment of perceived weakness isn’t about cruelty - it’s fear in disguise, desperate denial of his past victimhood. Because if he lets himself empathize, even a little, the dam might break. Then he’s no longer the charming predator, no longer in control. He’s the boy on the floor of Cazador’s dungeon again. And he can’t let that happen.

And that’s probably what happened when he met his siblings - other six vampire spawns (and other victims in the dungeon later). Before, Astarion had brushed off Tav’s concerns about facing them and his past again, but he didn’t take it well in the end - he couldn’t put himself on the same level with them, it was too much to bear, so he just put another wall between them instead.

But even if he starts distancing himself, obsessed with the Rite, the longing remains. And if Tav keeps reaching, gently, patiently, he still hears them. Because deep down in his heart, like a guiding star, these words live:

"I can be better than him."

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Yay, I’m so glad you liked her! And thank you so much for such a thoughtful question too!

So, as for Roanael’s motivation and goals:

At first it was simply to survive, get rid of the tadpole and return back to her normal life. She values her freedom and integrity too much to accept becoming an illithid so finding a solution became everything.

But when others who shared the same situation began to trust her and rely on her leadership, she also felt a deep responsibility for them. So her main goal grew into helping their little newfound family make it through alive, so all of them can have a future.

And later, when her bond with Astarion grew stronger, her motivation included him too - a future where he could live freely and they could be together.

🌿 Roanael’s Roots 🌿

~Creating more background for my first Tav in BG3~

Roanael is a half-elf druid, born and raised in the bustling city of Baldur’s Gate.
With the background of a Sage, she always had passion for books - digging into stories, learning about the world, always curious to learn more about their plane and others. But thanks to her wood elven ancestry, the call of the forest was just as strong for her 🌳✨

She has a strong but introverted presence:
Roanael doesn’t mind meeting new people - in fact, her friendly and open-minded nature tends to draw others in - but she doesn’t actively seek company. Her favorite days are spent either wandering through nature or reading a book in her room, or… tucked under a tree, reading a book while surrounded by leaves and sunlight 😁📚🍃

Unlike many druids, Roanael never belonged to any formal circle. Instead, she taught herself the ways of nature, following knowledge from books and her own experience, counting on her instincts rather than strict traditions. Growing up in multicultural Baldur’s Gate made her learn early on that people, like the wilds, are all different and trying to force them into one way is never the answer. Maybe that’s why, even during her adventures, she always steps aside and lets her companions find their own paths 🛤️

As for her family, her human father (a druid himself!) and wood elven mother met somewhere beyond Baldur’s Gate and decided to start a family together in the city. Their love was deep and respectful of each other’s independence - values they passed on to Roanael. Sadly, her father passed away some years ago. He was the cheerful and warm man, a glue that kept their little family close, and after his death, Roanael and her mother (a strong, busy elven woman with an important city job 💼) saw each other less often. But the bond between them - quiet, understanding - remains strong.

Still, after her father's passing, Roanael began to venture farther and farther from Baldur’s Gate, looking to explore the world and see it with her own eyes. The spirit of adventure soon proved too contagious to resist, and before she knew it, she couldn’t even remember the last time she had been home. Or rather… she had started feeling at home everywhere the road led her 🏡

This upbringing shaped Roanael into who she is now: calm, thoughtful, independent, but always carrying compassion in her heart. She inherited both her mother’s wisdom and quiet strength and her father’s curiosity and warmth.

As for many half-elves, the duality of her existence was deeply ingrained into her life from the very beginning, but she has learned to make it her strength, accepting both of her sides and blending them into a beautiful harmony.

🌿 A few small things about Roanael:

Favorite wild shapes: wolf (for battle), cat (for sneaking)

Favorite spells: Grasping Vine, Ice Knife, Misty Step, Lightning Bolt

Eyes: left green, right silver

Hair: brown with warm ginger highlights, usually tied simply back

Tattoo: a teal mark of three small birds soaring across her left cheekbone — a joyful symbol of freedom

Age: somewhere around 35-40 by human standards

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✨Pinterest Blind Date✨

I just happened to see this post from @litsenn and it looked fun so I’m joining in :3

Rules: Pinterest is setting you up on a blind date! Search the following and post the result:

Fictional Character, Date, gift, Outfit, dessert, Love quote.

That’s not something I’d wear 🤔 But Astarion is so cute here and I love the quote, it’s perfect 😭❤️

Knowledge is power. Sometimes literally.

Astarion: Still, if nothing else, maybe I can beat Cazador to death with it (The Necromancy of Thay).

I laughed so much at this but it also reminded me of my own experience while solving the Balduran trials, in Wyrm’s Crossing dungeons.

Still, to this day, I have no idea whether I did everything right or it was not how you are supposed to solve this (please, don’t tell me!)

But Roanael, my Tav, was already so frustrated after the previous trials that in the Camber of Insight she just… threw the books at the shadows of their authors.

…And it worked.

Roanael: *throwing the book*

Astarion: I did say beating someone with a book might be an option… I just never thought you’d take it quite so literally.

Shadowheart: 🤦‍♀️

Lae’zel: *enjoying the show*

Gale: *would disapprove if he were there but fortunately he wasn’t*

Did you notice? They share the same voice actor!

CV: Wu Lei

On a search for most romantic places in the city because I have already finished this campaign and the only saves I have are either here on in the Astral Prism

Just keep your eyes open guys 👀

Getting Closer

(2/? part of “Astarion: In Search of True Self” — [masterpost here])

In my first playthrough, I was worried that if we slept too often, we would all turn into mind flayers, so I went through the Saving the Grove quest almost without resting in camp. Unfortunately, that meant I missed some of the early interactions with companions, including Astarion. That’s also why, when my Tav spent the celebration night with him, she still had no idea he was a vampire.

Honestly… I actually prefer that. It makes the story flow more naturally, in a way. But as with most things in BG3, it works either way.

Why I loved it, though, because it made so much sense for Astarion to want Tav to start getting attached before revealing what he truly is - a vampire spawn. It also meant that the morning conversation was the one where he told more about himself and his past and the conversation felt less rushed and more genuine. But maybe it is my nostalgia speaking.

First Steps

One of the first proper camp dialogues with Astarion happens when he admits Tav is more impressive than he initially thought and says he'd like to keep seeing them as an ally (the Stars cutscene). As always, he's surprisingly honest - so much so that I doubt it can be considered a manipulation.

But this is also where he begins putting his famous "simple plan" into motion: seducing Tav to ensure his own safety. As we established earlier (see Part 1), his main goal is security. So now that he's confident Tav is strong and useful, he starts using the tools he knows best - suggestive charm and witty jokes.

This eventually leads to him inviting Tav to spend time together during the celebration night at camp (or even earlier, depending on approval). That's where the romance seems to begin… or so we think.

Flirting or Strategy?

Even if Tav is already smitten, from Astarion’s side this is manipulation - at least on the surface. You can clearly see and hear how different his behavior is during these moments: too smooth, too controlled. Not like the moments when he's genuine and real - when rough, unkempt words come spilling out of him freely, with wide gestures or a calm, serious demeanor.

Still, even though he later admits that he was trying to make Tav an ally so they wouldn't turn on him, I do believe that even then, he'd already started to care a little, especially depending on the following nuance.

If this conversation happens at the celebration party, approval doesn't actually need to be very high. His motivation there is more about survival after he confirmed once again that it would be better to have Tav on his side. But if you do raise his approval high enough in Act 1, you might get that flirty conversation even earlier - and it runs differently, too. He admits he’s starting to like "the whole package," and says he wants to reward Tav for sharing their blood with him. Not just complaining about boredom and bad wine anymore, huh?

So maybe his motivations start to shift, even just slightly. He might genuinely want to keep Tav near in the only way he knows: giving them what he thinks they want. It can still be part of his strategy, but there's something more complicated beginning to form underneath.

Looking Back

There’s one thing I now feel a little uneasy about. When Astarion first flirts and invites Tav to spend time with him during the party, I chose the dialogue where my Tav teases him a little - she makes him say "please" before agreeing. And when he does, she calls him a "good boy." He actually approves of that line and seems a bit (pleasantly?) surprised that Tav can be so sassy. It felt playful and bold at the time, and I remember how I was like: “Oh! He likes that??”

But after learning about his past… it feels different. Because this was how he survived. His body, his charm - these were tools he had to use. And now it's not just that Tav flirted - it's that she made him beg for it, in a sense, while Astarion was trying to keep himself safe. This thought feels pretty awful.

Still, I try to comfort myself with a few points:

We had no idea at the time!

He did approve of it!

Maybe it showed that Tav wasn't desperate for his body - it was more about their interaction. It felt like she was genuinely enjoying the banter, not just trying to sleep with him.

So… maybe it’s not that bad (^^;)

What Got Me Hooked

To be honest, back then I was still skeptical about Astarion as a love interest. I knew he was a popular character, and I thought he was a bit overrated - mainly because all the media glimpses I'd seen of him were about his very sexualized image. But something about him piqued my curiosity.

By the time he started flirting with Tav, I was already like: "Nooo, stawp~ …nevermind, keep going." Kind of not admitting I was interested even to myself - but still feeling giddy when believing he was "interested" in my Tav. (Which… wasn’t quite true, as we know now.)

But then came the moment after their first night together - my Tav noticed his scars. I expected him to deflect or change the subject, but instead he told her. Honestly and openly. That he was a slave. That his old master left those marks.

That was the moment I felt something shift, noticed his depth. And from there, I really wanted to get to know him better.

(*cough* And that's how my obsession started *cough*)

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"Unascended" Astarion

Why I love the Spawn ending and why it's not "lesser"

Up until now, I've been lucky to stay on the Spawn-supportive side of the fandom, but yesterday, I stumbled upon some Ascendant-supportive interpretations, some of which surprised or even upset me. I want to make clear that my intention is not to point fingers here - I just want to work through my emotions and put the feeling into words, because, honestly, I felt a lot yesterday. Also, I think it's a great opportunity to share my own view: why I love his Spawn ending and think it is beautiful.

Let’s go through some points I’ve seen brought up:

"Unascended" Astarion

I’m not sure if this is a unified term for Spawn Astarion, but I’ve seen several posts refer to him as “Unascended.” That phrasing alone feels invalidating - as if he’s lesser or incomplete because he didn’t take the power offered. In a way, it echoes how Ascended Astarion refers to his former self, calling him pathetic.

But the Spawn ending isn’t about not ascending - it’s about reclaiming himself. This Astarion isn’t “less than.” He’s the same man they say they fell for, but now he’s free to grow, reflect, and choose who he wants to become.

"Miserable" Astarion

The moment when Astarion breaks down in tears after killing Cazador and then says he feels numb is mentioned a lot.

There’s a claim that it shows he’s miserable and regrets not ascending - in contrast to the Ascended version who laughs and says he feels alive.

But this interpretation completely misreads the moment. That breakdown isn’t weakness. It isn’t regret at having missed an opportunity. It’s emotional, cathartic release.

He just faced the man who controlled and tortured him for centuries, resisted over ultimate temptation with power, and chose to break the vicious cycle. He is finally free - not just to live to but grieve too.

Killing Cazador didn't erase or undo everything that happened, but it gave him space to feel it.

Up until now, survival was taking all the space, but now that the overpowering shadow of his former master is finally lifted, he feels empty, numb.

With that cry, Astarion releases the pain he was carrying for so long, mourning everything that was stolen from him, and feeling the weight of finally being free.

And there is this huge relief that it is finally over.

So he cries - and this is a perfectly natural and deeply human reaction. Crying isn't bad - it's a way to deal with strong emotions.

Meanwhile, the Ascended version laughs, high on power and control, - a very different kind of reaction.

“Depressed” Astarion

Some say that Astarion seems miserable or depressed in the Spawn ending. But what I see is the opposite: he’s calmer, more grounded, and more honest. They are concerned because he doesn’t constantly joke or flirt like before. But that version of Astarion - the flamboyant, seductive, constantly smirking version - was his mask. A performance he relied on over centuries to survive.

In the Spawn path, he still uses it from time to time - old habits die hard. But now, with Tav, he doesn’t need it. He’s safe enough to be real - to show vulnerability, to ask for connection, to speak softly and show doubt. Yes, his tone changes. He’s more serious, but that’s not sadness - it’s growth that shows in calm self-reflection.

That some interpret as a “loss of charm” is actually him finally lowering his defenses. He speaks softly, shows doubt, asks for real connection and allows himself to be seen. That’s vulnerability and real strength.

Well, of course, he can feel sad too. He needs time to process. And that's how the healing starts. It can't be a 100% nice and pleasant experience - it will be painful, ugly, even - but in a necessary, honest way, with shaking and tears. But you need to get through the thorns to reach the stars.

"Rejecting" Astarion

There’s a moment in the Spawn ending where Tav can offer to protect him now that he’s still a vampire spawn, and Astarion gently declines. I saw someone interpret this as a sign of distrust - that Astarion can’t forgive Tav for denying him the chance to walk in the sun, and that he’s pushing them away to protect himself.

Yes, Tav’s wording may come off a bit awkward - “I’ll protect you” - but I believe it is said out of love: a sincere attempt to comfort and reassure.

And Astarion’s reply is a gentle refusal. He accepts their care, but sets a new boundary. He doesn't seek to rely on someone strong anymore - he wants to be his own protector, because now he believes he is enough.

That’s the new strength he found in rejecting the stolen power promised by the Rite.

"Strong" Astarion

There’s an idea that the Ascended path gives Astarion power and confidence, while the Spawn path leaves him weak and miserable.

But that confidence? Try asking Ascended Astarion about his past - about Cazador. He snaps. He doesn’t want to talk. He lashes out.

Spawn Astarion, by contrast, can talk about it. He faces it, even when it hurts.

Ascended Astarion might have new powers, but inside, he is weaker than ever.

He might look invincible, might say all the pretty words about being in control, but he’s emotionally cut off. He’s angry, reactive, guarded. He doesn’t want his past mentioned because it still owns him. Why? Because he became its embodiment, continuing the wicked cycle of power-seeking and domination.

The powers gave him control, but cost him everything else: his softness, his openness, his ability to grow. He becomes what he used to hate, and that’s not freedom - that’s entrapment by another name.

I think the tragedy is that Ascended Astarion no longer believes in love or trust - only in power, and the illusion of safety it brings.

In contrast, Spawn Astarion chooses trust: in himself, in Tav, in friendship, in this world. He chooses life, with all its mess and uncertainty.

Yes, he has limitations as a spawn. But don't we all have them, one way or another? These limitations don't make us less valuable. And yes, he mourns them, mourns the sunlight and everything else that was stolen from him. And that's human. But it doesn't mean he regrets his choice. He embraces what he can have: love, freedom, real connection, the chance to shape his own path.

And it is very brave to learn to face your shadows and work through them, so they won't hold you back or make you feel bad about yourself. It can make one stronger and more compassionate toward other people's weaknesses. It reminds me of this quote that stuck with me when I saw it:

"Do you understand the violence it took to become this gentle?" (Nitya Prakash)

Astarion isn’t “perfect” in the Spawn ending. He’s still learning, still healing, still growing. But for the first time in his life, he’s doing it on his own terms. He is not rid of his wounds and uncertainty. The Ascended path is covering the scars with glamor and denial. But these scars don’t make Astarion someone less, they make him real. And his choice - to remain himself rather than become someone he used to hate - is strength, not loss.

The Ascended path closes its eyes on the inconvenient moments, unable to handle them. Believing that version of him is happy and content is doing the same - painting castles in the sky instead of looking at the radiant in its messiness truth.

"Humbled" Astarion

Another criticism I saw was that Astarion thanks Tav for being patient with him. And trusting him "when it was objectively stupid."

The argument was that he shouldn’t feel grateful for being “tolerated,” that this shows low self-worth and implies an unhealthy dynamic where love is conditional.

But loving someone “as they are” doesn’t mean you resist their growth. You can see someone’s potential and want this for them, but still cherish them in every stage of becoming. Patience in love isn’t about wanting to fix your loved one - it’s holding space for them while they are looking for their way to their better selves. It's about seeing someone with all their flaws and wounds and staying beside them anyway. Not closing your eyes and pretending everything is fine.

When Astarion says “thank you for being patient,” it’s not self-deprecation, it's recognition. It’s him saying: "I know I was difficult. And I’m so grateful you stayed."

Astarion was still discovering who he was. He believed in a cruel system, and it took time, trust, and care to step outside it. It’s a deeply vulnerable moment of acknowledging that he was in the process of relearning who he truly was, beyond what Cazador told him to be, shaking off centuries of trauma and manipulation. And it takes immense courage to face it.

So Tav’s patience is a form of love. A love that doesn’t rush him. That looks beyond a mask or performance. A love that quietly waits beside him until he’s ready. When Astarion says next that he feels “safe and seen”, it's everything. He’s not being humbled in the sense of being diminished or broken - he’s grounding himself.

Astarion gains a deeper understanding of himself - the freedom to feel everything fully and still keep going. That’s not being less. That’s becoming whole.

And yes - this humility is strength. A strength that the Ascended Astarion refused. He cannot grow, he's entraped, frozen in a performance of power, unable to confront or heal from the pain that shaped him into what he chose to become.

But Spawn Astarion can move forward. That’s why his “thank you for being patient” means something. Because he finally knows himself. Or at least starting to get to know himself. And he chooses to be loved as that man.

Conclusion

The tragedy of the Ascended path is that Astarion loses the one thing he fought so hard for: himself.

He doesn't believe in love anymore, only in power and control. He inherited the world that Cazador painted for him.

But the Spawn path is about choosing to live. To feel. To love.

Astarion chooses to leave the past behind and start again. To face uncertainty and shadows as himself, not as a vampire lord.

And hearing someone rob him of this, invalidate and pity for this choice... honestly? It hurts. And yes, I do feel angry about it.

I do try not to blame or disrespect people who see this so differently, but it doesn't mean I can't have emotions about this. So I needed to vent in the most civilized way possible.

Still, no one can take that from him, our Radiant Hopeful.