Alter Roles

Hey, so definitely don't go into more details than you feel comfortable with but if you can, could you elaborate on systems forming pseudomemories because they researched programming? Like developing completely false memories of programming when they aren't, or?

Hey constellation!

To be completely honest, I don’t know how well I could do that because I’m in heavy denial for the memories I currently have. I often try to tell myself they’re not real/they are pseudomemories so that I can like…feel better, I guess. Lol. Iykyk.

The reason I said that is because of what I read when I looked into RAMCOA, including alllllll of the warnings that were given to me from other victims of RAMCOA and ignored them like a dumbass and researched anyway.

They told me it was super common for non-RAMCOA systems to get pseudomemories. I honestly don’t remember how they explained it, I apologize. Something along the lines of “if you hear about a trauma situation that vaguely seems like it could make sense you may jump to conclusions” sort of thing. Gonna do like a really basic example here:

If you have a phobia of spiders (common in anyone really) but you read about a trauma scenario involving torture with spiders you might be like “Oh GOD! I have a spider phobia! I must have spider related trauma!” And anyone can be good at running with an idea and overthinking and imagining all these horrible scenarios.

HOWEVER

This is not always the case. If you feel you have genuine programming or memories regarding them it’s probably best to NOT fuck around and find out and find a specialist that can treat that because if you poke the bear it can get hella messy. It’s better to be safe than sorry. It’s better to realize they are pseudomemories later than assume they’re pseudomemories and dig deeper to figure out the “real memory” and realize that IS the real memory and massively destabilize the system.

However! (x2)

I stand by my original reply to that one person that if you haven’t already looked into RAMCOA, Don’t. You will not find good things. Whether you have progs or not. It’s not a fun thing to read about.

TW on this next part for what progging would be used for, NOT detailed at all, just be aware that I will be talking briefly about CSA/MC/suicide related things.

Wanna add that not all programming is done the same. I sorta brushed past that in that last reply, but I wanna make it more clear: not all programmers are super skilled or have done it a lot to make a fully programmed system. This sort of thing takes massive amounts of work. YEARS of work. And the stuff that happens is usually massively fucked up. I can only imagine some people not involved in a literal organized cult who specializes in this stuff who try will give up for some reason or another, or may not do it “well enough” or may modify things they’ve learned from other proggers to fit their own needs. Programming/mind control is usually done to fit the abusers/proggers needs, which means one’s programming could be at the level of like “Monarch Program” shit or like, more simple MC/progging for sex-related tasks or compliance or suicide programs for protection of the abusers.

Hope that answers your question. DMs are open, I’m absolutely okay to talk about this stuff carefully.

-Dorian

We are going to finally go and try to chart out / document our system / known parts for our old/current therapist and since we make a lot of organized sheets and stuff for fun I'm sharing a copy of a template for alter information ^^ Feel free to use / make a copy and use on your own and modify and all.

Its BASK + Extra stuff that we find relevant to our system

Google Docs

Copy For Others

Sheet1 Name:,TEMPLATE Picture / Description / Self Depiction,BEHAVIOR:,Important Notes: AFFECT: SENSORY: KNOWLEDGE: Role:,NOTABLE DYNAMICS

do not know how to word my feelings on your post, but it feels very strange to say that because your DID experiences are misery, that means DID itself is miserable, and to imply that non-DID-having bodies can't experience being a system is weird.

yes, what you went through sounds awful, and yes, DID to you would be miserable, but DID does not mean misery. it means (some level of) disorder. for people who are polyfragmented (especially through things like RAMCOA/TBMC), yes, this CAN mean a LOT of misery, but us systems who do not suffer with that same level of misery aren't less of a system because of that difference.

while you can explain your experiences as more painful in your perspective, playing trauma olympics and denying other people's own experiences is weird. it's heavily invalidating, especially as someone who would probably fall under a disordered traumagenic diagnosis, and who loves their system and who sees it as hope and not misery (as it is the light in the darkness, the company that protected me through terrible things. that is not misery for me)

(also, most endogenic systems are not claiming to have DID, not self diagnosed or professionally diagnosed. it is a different kind of plural systemhood that is not connected to having DID. so to say that being endogenic is taking away "everything that DID is about" is just... strange.)

I am not playing the trauma Olympics by saying that what I went through makes me miserable. For you to suggest acknowledging my existence as a trauma survivor is invalidating is really not good.

Also I should clarify: you can love parts and even most of your system, but you cannot deny the fact that it is born out of misery and so it is not all sunshine and rainbows. It comes with PTSD, or one of its forms.

Also, endogenic is taking away everything DID is about because the only scientifically recognized way to be a system is with either DID (or a variant like HC or C), OSDD-1, or UDD. And these, like all dissociative disorders, are trauma disorders. To me being endogenic has always meant cherry picking a glamorized version of the symptoms of these disorders, as I said in the post.

Coping Mechanisms Masterlist

Thoughts to break the cycle

this is temporary if I believe it is

I AM NOT my perception, or my thoughts

I am the observer of the thoughts

my mind is protecting me and is stressed from not knowing how to fix it. Thank you for protecting me but it will be okay

the negative thoughts are just a symptom of depression, dissociation/dpdr, c-ptsd, or anxiety or all of the above

thoughts are just like another one of the 5 senses. Like how you can perceive textures, smells, tastes, sounds. Your thoughts allow you to perceive an experience. But you are not your nose. You are not your mouth. You are not your ears. You are not your hand it’s just a hand that’s connected to your body. And so You are not your thoughts. You’re the one experiencing these sensations you are not the sensations.

Even if you genetically are predisposed or your genetics or brain chemistry has caused the issue. Especially in this case your thoughts do not define who you are they are just a reaction your brain is creating to protect you from something it thinks is a threat.

self hate and depression is a coping mechanism: your body wants you to be better, to be perfect to avoid something negative that hurts and self hate is the way it decided to go but it doesn’t have to be that way. Tell your mind “thank you” and “I love you but it’s okay.” “We are safe” and “I am enough.”

I try to remember my goals: how I want to be happy, the things I want to add to my life that will make me feel calmer and happier. (If you don’t have any goals or ideas think of anything you want in this world to achieve, or learn, or earn and write it down and imagine how it would feel if you had it right now. It helps push you to realize you can shape your life how you want)

that someone in this world loves you. If you can’t name anyone. Your own body loves you. It keeps you alive and gives you the ability to experience things like eating yummy food, being able to pet an animal and feel how soft their fur is, being able to look up at the sky and see stars or clouds. Simple every day things that we take for granted because we get so stressed out from life and drama. Sometimes we forget we could lose our eyesight and we wouldn’t be able to see things or people that we love. We could get injured and never be able to walk, run or jump again. We could lose our ability to breathe and be hooked up to a ventilator. I like to write down anything I can think of to be grateful for everyday in my journal and it makes me feel less depressed, less anxious,and excited to be able to just .. be alive especially when I want to not be alive anymore

I remind myself that when I was a baby I didn’t have any thoughts I didn’t know shit. The way I grew up and had to experience life made it so I perceive life the way I do. I like to imagine if I was a blank slate what are the different ways I could look at my life? What are the ways I can decide to look at situations or myself? People don’t just wake up and love themselves they were taught to feel loved. Just like how we don’t wake up with these negative self hateful thoughts. We got them from somewhere. We can choose if we want to still believe our perceptions or not. But learning to be happy and to love ourself is like a skill. Just like how learning to hate ourselves took time and repeated experiences.

Self care / Self love activities

imagining an older version of myself comforting present me. And imagining myself currently to comfort past me during traumatic moments

bubble baths

napping with soothing audios, or sleep meditations

walking outside

calling a friend

visiting a family member or friend

Write yourself a note when you’re happy to yourself and read it when you’re upset

Make a voice memo give future you a pep talk, positive affirmations, or even guided meditations and listen to it when you’re upset

lighting a candle and writing down an intention and meditating or you can pray if you believe in a god or have a religion. Or if you just believe in the universe and law of attraction

journaling

cleaning or tidying up a little

eating a yummy but healthy snack

cooking or baking

(if I’m severely not okay) holding an ice cube, running my hands in cold water and splashing the water in my face, taking a cold shower, taking a rubber band on my wrist and snapping it back

reading a book

watching my favorite tv show or movie

watching a comedy

playing music and forcing myself to dance (when I’m alone of course 😅)

yoga

exercising

watching cute animal videos on YouTube

Singing in the shower

Adult coloring books

some type of video about philosophy that reminds me that I’m not alone and we are all lost

some type of video that reminds me how beautiful life can be

some type of video that reminds me that I’m not in control of my circumstance, my genetics, or the world but I’m in control of how I react that I’m the one that gives power to my thoughts

Breaking thought patterns, bad habits and doing self care every day helps immensely. Over time it gets easier and easier to feel okay and to even feel happy. But never stop doing these things for the rest of your life. You either feed the negative thoughts or you feed the positive. You either feed the negative habits or you feed the bad. You get to choose. Seek help, and be gentle with yourself. Healing isn’t linear.

RECOVERING PROGRAMMED PARTS

Trigger warning for discussion of RAMCOA and programming. This post will be focused on programmed parts recovering, I will mainly be speaking from my personal experience. If other survivors have more to add on, you are more than welcome to reblog this post and add your experience and advice. First, I want to preface this post by saying that everyone's experience is going to be different. No two systems are the same, the same applies to programmed systems and programmed parts. Recovery for these parts will entirely depend on what they have been programmed to do or believe. Show them kindness. Arguably the most important first step, showing kindness and acceptance to these parts is extremely important. Remember that they do not do these things out of choice, but rather out of trauma and feeling a need to do so. You do not have to condone their behaviors, and you are allowed to feel hurt by them, but you should not take this out on them. They are just as traumatized as any other part in the system. Start slow. There is no rush to recovery. Recovery is also not always linear, and setbacks do not mean you are back at square one. Try encouraging your programmed parts to take small steps outside of their programmed roles, if it is safe to do so. For example, a part who is programmed to be aggressive may be encouraged to do something calming such as going for a walk or listening to some music. Find new jobs for them. In our experience, many programmed parts struggle with the thought of not having a job or "purpose". This may not be the case for your programmed parts, but if you notice this type of thinking, try to help them find jobs that they are comfortable with that benefit the system in current life. For example, a high-ranking internal handler may have a lot of knowledge about the system and could do a good job of keeping track of information about the system in a helpful and healthy way. Help them find themselves. Having a more beneficial job and experiences outside of trauma is a good start, but often helping these parts find more of a sense of identity can help them recover as well, when it is safe for them to do so. For example, many programmed parts in our system are involuntarily assigned a title, choosing a name when they feel ready is incredibly healing for them. There is no rush to do this, and you should not try to force any part who is not ready into doing this, especially if they feel that they may be punished by other parts. Help them question things. Ideally, this should be done with the help of a therapist. Helping these parts question the things they were taught to believe can be incredibly helpful, but it must be done on their own terms, when they feel ready, and very carefully. Please do not try to force beliefs onto them, but rather give them space to question what they were taught on their own terms, when they are ready to do so. My experience. I was a high-ranking internal programmer for quite some time, and a few months ago I started making an attempt to recover. I began speaking to people both inside and outside my system who did not share my role, and because of this I was able to begin questioning some of the things that I had been taught. I am still not completely free of all of my beliefs, but when they do come up, I do my best to remind myself that those are things other people instilled into me as opposed to my own conclusions. The things that have been most helpful in my recovery have been other individuals showing me kindness and acceptance, despite my actions, and the ability to do things on my own terms, when I feel ready. If anyone has anything to add to this, or any questions, feel free to reblog or send us an ask. I will do my best to answer any questions, and I would appreciate any additions to this post, as I think sharing healing information is something that should be done more often. - Adonis

What counts as TBMC? Ex-Pentecostal wanting to know because I never really see clear and concise definitions on these things and trying to research RAMCOA gives me a lot of dodgy right wing rhetoric which I don't want to keep having to comb through for my own sanity.

TBMC is known by as two things. One: trauma based mind control. Two: torture based mind control.

Most survivors we've also ran into prefer the former because it tends to include things that are less extreme and not everyone feels their trauma went far enough to be considered torture. It's also unfortunately true that a lotta alt-righters tend to get into mind control in a more co-opting nature, which is ironic given the group that did that to us was alt-right. Honestly we find the TB to be unnecessary given mind control is always traumatic and is inherently horrific.

What counts as TBMC?

TBMC is something done primarily through abusive means to induce a dissociative state, in which one becomes more suggestible. This can be done in order to intentionally create parts/alters (when done starting on someone as a child in rare cases) or just to make someone behave the way you want them to. This is why sometimes people who are abducted by other countries as agents betray their old group and join in with their abusers. (For an extreme example). Other ways the dissociative state is achieved is through putting people into forms of trances. This can be done with meditation or mantras, forced hypnotization, and at times substances.

We've got a good mixture of both mind control and conditioning. The conditioning is done more via Pavlov's Dogs type experiences and "training" and is less tied to TBMC and typically easier to train out of. Mind control- especially in those raised with it- is driven into a part of their personality. It becomes an essential piece of the whole identity and it is not something that can be taken away without proper aid and therapy. You cannot deprogram yourself from mind control the way you can "uncondition" yourself, so to speak.

Anything that was driven into you while in a dissociative state (thus highly suggestible) or being actively traumatized that is ideological, personal, an act, behaviors, etc. is typically a form of mind control. A very common example of this is being made to be fully and completely dependent upon your leader/an authority figure. This may result in what is reminiscent of worship of the individual and in some cases leaves the victims incapable of making decisions. To this day we have to ask friends in desperation what food we should eat because the idea of deciding for ourselves is far too difficult. We roll dice connected to numbers to mark our decisions in hopes of having a way to make a choice. (And again, this is but one example.)

Some of the information we have garnered on the subject comes from a variety of sources more heavily focused upon cults as that was what we grew up in and with. We have dug deep into the information on what makes a cult a cult and what signs of specific types of cultic programming we exhibit. Even then programming can be hard to categorize and know what is meant by because it's so personal and specific in its application. I am uncertain if we are of much help- but I will say we personally see no harm in if you find spaces appropriate for it, asking if specific things you expect may be programming or signs of TBMC are able to be labeled as such. That's what we had to do to accept we were a RAMCOA survivor as we originally had less memories of the cult until given the name by our parents (to be clear we did this only because we were already in therapy and part of our recovery and work is being done in order to come out against the group and the leader, and have full legal protections as a whistle blower)

“Having DID is rare-“

Ok and being a beekeeper isn’t the most common profession ever but I sure see a lot of them when I search “beekeepers” in online spaces.

Being an autistic HC-DID system-or really any part/person that experienced torture and is autistic-is funny (in a bad way) because I’m so scared of engaging in my special interests. I’m a database for our torture and sigma+zeta programmed sidesystem which is basically I know surface level what happened but I never experienced it, I kind of just hold emotions and the idea.

Sometimes we were tortured for reading comic books and drawing. Art and writing are 2 of our then 3 then 4 and now 5 special interests. It was engaging in the “wrong ways”, as our group liked to call “sin”. Drawing was especially punished-they probably made something up about why it was worse than reading comics but it was probably because it left evidence we were at their houses.

Anyways, it’s especially painful for me to exist. Not only at I constantly anxious and panicked, I can’t do soothing activities that will help me because it’ll make things worse. But, if I don’t do the soothing activities, it also makes it worse. Stimming was also punished so I can’t do that either. I just wish we didn’t live like this.

I would not suggest the deprogrammed wiki, lots of miss information there, but there is some true stuff there too. Just wanted to add that! 

RAMCOA* Resources

Trigger warning: the content on these websites contain discussions of rape, abuse, and trauma-based mind control. PLEASE be careful with yourself, especially if you’re a survivor.

Survive’s page on ritual abuse

General information, does not include information about mind control. Aimed at survivors and allies.

BRISSC’s page on ritual abuse

General information, does not include information about mind control. Aimed at survivors and allies.

RAMCOA Resources Carrd

A very thorough resource on RA and mind control. Contains information on different types of programmed alters and their terms, a general definition of ritual abuse and TBMC, common trigger dates for survivors, and what you can do to help. Aimed at allies. The information here can possibly be triggering if you are a survivor or suspect you are a survivor.

endritualabuse.org

A vast site on ritual abuse and mind control, created by a psychologist who has worked with survivors of RA. Contains information, words from survivors to survivors, and symptom lists of survivors, mostly intended for therapists and professionals. As a survivor, I have found many helpful things for recovery on this site, but please be careful on which articles you read. The information part of this site is very thorough and can possibly be triggering if you are a survivor or suspect you are a survivor.

Deprogram Wiki

This is a site that is a gold mine for information on detecting if someone is a victim of TBMC and programming, the different types of programmed alters, and, specifically for therapists or professionals, how to deprogram someone who has been a victim of RAMCOA. HEAVY TRIGGER WARNING — this site is NOT intended for survivors at all and can be extremely triggering.

*RAMCOA - an acronym that stands for Ritual Abuse, Mind Control, and Organized Abuse.