Highly Complex DID

Halloween has rolled around, and that means an inevitable rise in “Halloween is bad because of SRA” stuff, and while the temptation to joke about and poke fun at that type of content is overwhelming, I think it is a great opportunity to draw attention to how many RA awareness efforts center around a Christian narrative. People see RA as a spiritual issue and not a physical one. RA is an issue that comes from a need to control people through brutal methods as other people in power selfishly turn their backs on the well-being of children and abuse victims. The guilty protect the guilty, and this involves a lot of people who are powerful, wealthy, and well-respected (although it is important to avoid baseless accusations against anyone – looking at those of you who find random Democrats to shit on and decide they are Satanic ritual abusers because their pupils looked weird in a video). But the rise in SRA accusations in the 80s and 90s poured fuel on an already existing widespread panic about Satanism, leading to everything from Dungeons and Dragons to furbies being declared as part of the problem. Instead of focusing on the pervasiveness of institutional and cult abuse as well as the corruption of people in power as the problems that are central to RA, Christians began to view Satanic and occult influence as the problem. They heard the “Satan” in Satanic ritual abuse and decided that was the main issue. Essentially, Christians were using the problem of ritual abuse as a tool to push their own religious beliefs, as they do with many other things.

And this pattern continues to this day, with people deciding that Satanism and the occult are the main sources of danger, not the systems that were built by and for abusers and actively work against victims. Instead of fearing abusers, they fear Halloween, heavy metal, and plastic devil horns from costume stores. All of which are pretty fucking awesome.

If the people who were targeting Satanism targeted these issues instead, more people would be aware of and care about RA, and so many victims wouldn’t go unheard. Make no mistake, it is Satan they fear, not child abuse. And the way they are fixated on Halloween and Satanic imagery in music videos instead of bringing about real systemic change and drawing attention to evidence…that is proof.

**This is not at people who genuinely struggle on Halloween or are triggered by the holiday**

what is hc-did?

Highly Complex Dissociative Identity Disorder (HC-DID) is a specific structure and function of DID.

HC-DID stems from C-DID, or polyfragmentation. in C-DID, you can see many fragments of alters, lack of other coping skills besides dissociation, subsystems, an active inner world and more.

C-DID comes from trauma being integrated into day to day life, becoming inescapable with no other way to cope.

HC-DID is similar to C-DID in these ways, but differs with the types of traumas that were ingrained into day to day life. HC-DID can be a result of RAMCOA/TBMC. these types of abuse purposefully change the way the system works or how the alters behave/interact with others.

HC-DID systems frequently have programmed alters or a collection of programmed alters (side system), programmed behaviors, extreme amnesiac barriers, hierarchical system structure and very rigid and complex rules and organization.

many HC-DID systems, such as myself, only find out about their programmed status through programmed alters fronting and attempting to either return to the abusers, attempt to harm the body, or other types of programming. i will not be discussing programming in depth, as it can be very triggering.

the difference between the types of systems is important. it will determine the type of therapy needed and the therapist will need to be RAMCOA/TBMC informed to avoid triggering any programmed alters.

C-DID and HC-DID are not the same thing!

What counts as TBMC? Ex-Pentecostal wanting to know because I never really see clear and concise definitions on these things and trying to research RAMCOA gives me a lot of dodgy right wing rhetoric which I don't want to keep having to comb through for my own sanity.

TBMC is known by as two things. One: trauma based mind control. Two: torture based mind control.

Most survivors we've also ran into prefer the former because it tends to include things that are less extreme and not everyone feels their trauma went far enough to be considered torture. It's also unfortunately true that a lotta alt-righters tend to get into mind control in a more co-opting nature, which is ironic given the group that did that to us was alt-right. Honestly we find the TB to be unnecessary given mind control is always traumatic and is inherently horrific.

What counts as TBMC?

TBMC is something done primarily through abusive means to induce a dissociative state, in which one becomes more suggestible. This can be done in order to intentionally create parts/alters (when done starting on someone as a child in rare cases) or just to make someone behave the way you want them to. This is why sometimes people who are abducted by other countries as agents betray their old group and join in with their abusers. (For an extreme example). Other ways the dissociative state is achieved is through putting people into forms of trances. This can be done with meditation or mantras, forced hypnotization, and at times substances.

We've got a good mixture of both mind control and conditioning. The conditioning is done more via Pavlov's Dogs type experiences and "training" and is less tied to TBMC and typically easier to train out of. Mind control- especially in those raised with it- is driven into a part of their personality. It becomes an essential piece of the whole identity and it is not something that can be taken away without proper aid and therapy. You cannot deprogram yourself from mind control the way you can "uncondition" yourself, so to speak.

Anything that was driven into you while in a dissociative state (thus highly suggestible) or being actively traumatized that is ideological, personal, an act, behaviors, etc. is typically a form of mind control. A very common example of this is being made to be fully and completely dependent upon your leader/an authority figure. This may result in what is reminiscent of worship of the individual and in some cases leaves the victims incapable of making decisions. To this day we have to ask friends in desperation what food we should eat because the idea of deciding for ourselves is far too difficult. We roll dice connected to numbers to mark our decisions in hopes of having a way to make a choice. (And again, this is but one example.)

Some of the information we have garnered on the subject comes from a variety of sources more heavily focused upon cults as that was what we grew up in and with. We have dug deep into the information on what makes a cult a cult and what signs of specific types of cultic programming we exhibit. Even then programming can be hard to categorize and know what is meant by because it's so personal and specific in its application. I am uncertain if we are of much help- but I will say we personally see no harm in if you find spaces appropriate for it, asking if specific things you expect may be programming or signs of TBMC are able to be labeled as such. That's what we had to do to accept we were a RAMCOA survivor as we originally had less memories of the cult until given the name by our parents (to be clear we did this only because we were already in therapy and part of our recovery and work is being done in order to come out against the group and the leader, and have full legal protections as a whistle blower)

Disorganized Attachment and Dissociation

As promised, Anon, here’s a VERY quick and dirty rundown of disorganized attachment and the role it plays in the development of dissociation. Sorry it took so long ;–; This doesn’t even begin to cover it, but I hope it at least gives people a basic understanding.

Please remember, this is so incredibly brief and barely scratches the surface. It’s a really interesting field of research, and it has a lot of important (and good!) implications to therapy techniques and models. I highly encourage people that are interested to look through some of the below resources, or make a request for any specific aspects you want discussed further. Apparently, left to my own devices with a broad topic, I fail to be coherent.

What is disorganized attachment (DA)?

There are technically 4 types of attachment between a child and caregiver, differentiated by response patterns. The first 3 types (secure, insecure-avoidant, and insecure-ambivalent) are considered forms of “organized attachment”, despite the negative behaviours associated with it, because even if they’re not “secure”, the behaviour patterns are still organized and, more importantly, consistent. In other words, in all 3 types of organized attachment, the child knows exactly what they need to do to meet their emotional needs, and the patterns in their behaviour are considered organized.

In DA, though, the child is confused, and there’s no pattern to their behaviour. They’re torn between wanting to flee to, and flee from the caregiver. When a caregiver is unpredictable and traumatizing, the child has a difficult time establishing a consistent view of the caregiver, and of themselves. In other words, the caregiver is both needed, and someone to be avoided, and the child may not understand what makes them a “good” or “bad” child, as the caregiver’s behavior is often confusing and unpredictable.

It’s summed up quite well in this image:

What causes disorganized attachment?

All the same standard things you would already know about. Abuse, neglect, behaviour that’s frightening, intrusive or insensitive, and disrupted affective communication, but it really boils down to, “A parent’s consistent failure to respond appropriately to their child’s distress, or by a parent’s inconsistent response to their child’s feelings of fear or distress.” And this happens in childhood. The way a baby or very young child form attachments are the base building blocks that a child will use to build their relationships with people in the future. 

It’s important to note that it’s not just abuse that can cause a child to form DA. Sometimes loving caregivers who have experienced trauma themselves can behave in confusing ways toward the child, especially if they are suffering untreated PTSD or DID themselves. This happens because of the caregiver’s own inability to control their emotions. Traumatized parents can have a difficult time managing their emotions and providing a sense of security for the child even though they are not abusive or neglectful. Anger or fear can erupt unexpectedly and traumatize the child. 

As well, “Disorganized attachment is often the result of intergenerational parenting patterns. This means parents are responding to their children in the same unhealthy ways their own parents responded to them when they were children.”

What role does disorganized attachment play in dissociation?

This one is… A bit tough. There’s a lot of factors in play and so much ground to cover.

First, when discussing dissociation, it’s talking about it in a general sense. Everyone is capable of dissociating, and it’s simply when you become detached from reality in response to trauma– at any age, for any kind of traumatic event.  It’s also important to note that without a secure attachment style, an overwhelming event is more likely to be perceived as trauma. Basically, though, dissociation is a general symptom in this regard, not specific to any single disorder. DA is linked to dissociation, and from there, combined with other symptoms someone may be experiencing, it can become problematic and be assigned to specific mental disorders. 

So, the child needs to maintain a relationship with the caregiver– they have no one else to turn to, so the child can develop dissociation as a way to make sense of themselves, and to maintain a child-caregiver relationship. They may “forget” the abuse, or deny it. “It is an adaptive and defensive strategy that enables the child to function within the relationship, but it often leads to the development of a fragmented sense of self.” This fragmented sense of self may or may not develop into something worse– namely, BPD and DID based on severity, frequency, and whether there was any sense of reprieve (i.e. a child can avoid the worst of dissociative symptoms if one of their parents was more supportive, because it helps them build some positive attachments).

Children with DA and suffering from abuse “are likely to generate two or more dissociated self states, with contradictory working models of attachment,” in order to handle their confusing relationship with the caregiver. From there, “It is proposed that the propensity to react to traumatic events with dissociation is related to disorganization of early attachment and its developmental sequelae.” This is fundamentally the basis of why DID can’t form once the child creates an integrated sense of self. It is theorized that DA and dissociative disorders are inexplicably linked together. You can have DA and not develop DID/OSDD, but you can’t have DID/OSDD without DA. 

A lot of new research is suggesting that it’s not so much trauma as we know it (physical and sexual abuse) that is linked to dissociation, but that trauma is something that is far more discrete and insidious (longterm inconsistent and confusing parenting styles linked to DA) and that it’s only part of “a complex web of environmental, societal, familial, and genetic factors that are all likely to interact in ways that we have only begun to understand.” This is something I firmly believe in and attribute to a lot of the endogenic claims of having no trauma (and under this theory, “overwhelming events” also constitute trauma). 

Interestingly, it’s theorized that different types of attachment are linked to different mental disorders. “Attachment insecurity can therefore be viewed as a general vulnerability to mental disorders, with the particular symptomatology depending on genetic, developmental, and environmental factors.” Going back to the 4 types of attachment, the 3 insecure types can be linked to basically all types of disorders. They are all linked to depression, anxiety, OCD, PTSD, eating disorders and suicidal tendencies, but those with anxious attachment are more likely to develop things like DPD, HPD and BPD and are drawn to co-dependent relationships. Those with avoidant attachment are more likely to develop things like SPD and APD and form addictive habits, and those with disorganized attachment are more likely to develop DID/OSDD. 

Sources:

Identifying Attachment Problems

How Disorganized Attachment Can Lead to Dissociation

Disorganized Attachment

Disorganized Attachment, Development of Dissociated Self States, and a Relational Approach to Treatment

Trauma, Dissociation, and Disorganized Attachment: Three Strands of a Single Braid

From Infant Attachment Disorganization to Adult Dissociation: Relational Adaptations or Traumatic Experiences?

An attachment perspective on psychopathology

Fragmented Child: Disorganized Attachment and Dissociation

Heres a reminder for you that being dissociated isn't limited to the common misconception where you are frozen in place, incapable of doing anything or even thinking, or experiencing a significant time gap,, those things.

And while its hard to spot the milder signs when you're dissociating, don't worry i got you covered by bringing awareness, im showing what those signs could look like:

Dazing/blanking out several times

Hands looking weird (depersonalization)

Surroundings also looking weird (derealization)

Feeling detached emotionally, physically, or both

Light-headedness

Less reactive in responding

Forget things more often

Unable to focus or keep concentration straight

When you have multiple of those signs at once, then chances are you are dissociating (extra note that it can also co-occur with derealization/depersonalization). While it can be caused by various factors, i would like to add that it may or may not get worse as time passes and no one wants that thing to snowball until it got too bad (remember, preventing now is better than dealing later) so having a few tips would help:

Grounding (sensory): listening to music, feeling different textures, paying attention to things in your surroundings, trying different fragrant or scents, have some snacks to occupy your senses

Grounding (physically): feel your chest as you breathe, get your body moving to redirect focus, splash some cold water, hold something you can squeeze (such as a stress ball)

Practice being mindful. As it can help you re-anchor back to reality faster, regulate better, building more resilience, increasing awareness of oneself's state

Sometimes we go do our day without giving a thought that were detached from reality, usually by going autopilot and scrolling through social medias without being aware (well, atleast for me) and forget lots of things while being dysregulated at the end. So by being aware of the mild signs and incorporating grounding skills im sure memory gaps and those funny aftermath stuffs won't be a problem anymore, have a good day peeps.

- j

Cult Survivor Resources

Because we have seen and been given almost no cult survivor resources whatsoever by others and have in fact been discouraged from getting help (yes shockingly enough the idea that deprogrammers should not be talked to seem to be a pressure from those whoa are so called allies to victims of cults), we have decided to make our own resources document.

Google Docs

Cult Recovery Resources

Read Before You Research This document is a series of sources compiled by a cult survivor with Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID). This m

This is something we will keep updating as time goes on. We find resources like this to be very important especially our inclusion of dates that could cause discomfort, and why they are, as well as support group information and information on cult mind control. We are sick and tired of people telling us that it is bad to get help especially within the system community. No other space ever has treated us so strangely for our background.

1. Yes! A good chunk of our sidesystems don’t 

2. HC-DID, and I said we have a brother hi counting numbers somewhere around the 400

3. Yes we have a lot of  accents, does not mean we’re fake, we just grew in a very diverse place.

4. Yes, I’m starting to stutter because of silence programming. Please please change the topic. It will only get worse 

Questions for other systems (traumagenics only)

🚨Warning: has a question mentioning MC (no details/abuse descriptions)🚨

Do you have any alters that don’t know they’re a part of a system?

If you’re polyfragmented (both C-DID and HC-DID, or just polyfrag if you prefer), do you have a high number of alters or are you medium to low on the alter count?

What’s one thing you wished people could know about your system specifically?

For systems with MC, what’s one thing that you wished people knew about programming/MC?

I’ll make a reblog answering these questions if I feel like it, if not I’ll just let y’all answer. Not that I wouldn’t do that anyways.

I learned about compassion fatigue for the first time when I was a 911 operator for two and a half years. Now I’m experiencing it not from a particular job but from moving through life for so many years stuck in the constant “fawn” trauma response. I compulsively gave and gave and gave for so long that I now have literally nothing left. When I first stopped (for survival) compulsively giving to people out of an empty cup I realized I really had no sense of identity outside of helping people... I was overwhelmed with feelings of fear, obligation and guilt... I’m on a journey now of learning to give to myself before I give to anyone else and it’s honesty really hard. It feels “wrong” but I know that’s conditioning from my childhood. I learned I had to abandon myself to survive. Now my body is forcing me to listen to my needs.

most of my OSDD comics are gone from the internet AFAIK but I thought this one would be good to reupload (also sometimes you have to google psychologytoday dissociative disorder to get the category to show up)

my depression tips:

* whenever you go to the bathroom, try to do one hygiene task like brushing your teeth, moisturising or washing your face, bc ur already in there so you might as well

* leave out clothes in the bathroom so if u feel like you have the energy to shower you don’t have to waste time on picking out clothes, you can just get straight in

* if u wanna shave but you don’t have the energy, u can get an electric shaver and shave in bed, you won’t get as much hair off but it still does something

* get some of those one time use, water free toothbrushes and keep some next to ur bed, and use some water and any empty bowl or container to spit the toothpaste into. you can also keep a mini mouthwash next to your bed

* for food, try to get ready made meals and frozen meals. i keep a mini fridge in my room with drinks and snacks so if i can’t make it down to the kitchen i have something to fuel my body with

* if u can’t clean your room, make a list in order of priority (mine is floor, bed and surfaces) and whenever you feel like u can or u get a random burst of energy, just do a little bit

* keep a waterbottle next to your bed, and if you have clean tap water refill it whenever you go to the bathroom. i usually use fizzy water and squash so i feel like i’m drinking soda but it’s much healthier

* if u can’t get out of bed but wanna feel more clean, change your underwear and your shirt, then use some dry shampoo and wipes on ur armpits and sweaty areas

* if u have pets, make them a priority bc they need you to live, and they care about you so much, so spending time with them will make u feel better and loved

* if u can’t brush ur hair, don’t tie it up bc it will turn into a rat’s nest and you just don’t wanna have to deal with that. even detangling it with your fingers is better than nothing. also braiding it will protect it

* if u can’t sleep, lying still and closing your eyes still is rly good rest, and if u don’t wanna be alone with your thoughts you can listen to a podcast (any true crime or mythology ones are my fave)

* buy multiple pairs of ur comfort outfits so you always have something you want to wear to change into

* try to get up and open your window to air your room out of the smell, incense also works well to cover it

* to keep you entertained, here are some ideas:

* listen to ur fave songs, podcasts or an audiobook

* browse some social medias (tiktok, reddit and tumblr are my faves)

* join a discord server and just kinda idle on that and watch ppl chat

* play a mindless game on ur phone or if u have a handheld device like a switch (on my phone i love life is strange and on my switch i’ve been playing legend of zelda: breath of the wild)

* read some fanfics on ur phone (all the young dudes is a must read)

* kids activity books of ur fave fandoms are rly fun

* read some webtoons (heartstopper is amazing)

* watching a game play through on youtube (minecraft and skyrim ones are my faves)

* rewatching ur comfort movies or watching some funny cartoons

* if u have a laptop, download sims and play that