DID From A RAMCOA And TBMC Survivor “sysmed” Systems Perspective (so Many Adjectives)

Do you have any resources for figuring out if you've experienced OA or just resources about OA in general?

Cw: mention of gangs and trafficking, neglect, sadism, torture.

We ourselves just started to realize we also experienced OA and it's been a hellish discovery to realize. It should've been obvious but in out case it was a mix of not knowing the definition and not remembering enough.

Defining Organized Abuse (OA)

taken from a previous post here

Organized abuse is abuse done by two or more people in a pre-meditated nature. The most well known forms of OA are things such as trafficking and gangs. However this can also happen in other situations. If someone has two parents who have conspired purposefully together in order to do excessive harm to a child- that can count as OA. If two or more people conspire and plan and enact abuse upon you- it is... OA regardless if it is part of some greater group or not. The abuse must be repeated (more than one incident) and sadistic/cruel- often going far enough to be considered torture. It does not need to be done in the name of any ideology and may just be done for personal gratification or sadism.

How to know if you experienced it?

This is a super personal thing and depends on what you can remember of your trauma typically. You may have signs that make it seem like you could have experienced but it's nothing that can be 100% certain. If two or more people conspired to attack or abuse you it is a form of organized abuse. There will obviously be different levels of extremity and how large of groups are involved or not, but the nature of planned and pre-meditated abuse with multiple perpetrators differs enough from experiences that happen outside of that framework that it falls enough another category. That category being OA. We sadly cannot tell you if you have experienced something or not. And sometimes it can just be a nagging suspicion for a while.

If you have knowledge that a trafficking ring was busted later on in a place you once lived or was partially busted, be willing to be open to the idea you could have been involved if you were at risk to a reasonable degree of coming into contact with them. For us it was sever neglect making us an easy target. Or if you have gang activity in the area, and seem to know a lot more about gangs than the normal person does and have massive triggers around it more so than would be expected just from being in areas that have it- chances are you might have experienced something there too. But that doesn't make it a 100% chance either. It is just something to be aware of as a possibility and if it didn't happen you may have been adjacent enough or made aware at some point then forgot of the stuff happening in your area, which is also deeply traumatic and would be good to be aware of.

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We're not in a place where we can do much in depth research into it due to our own mental state currently so we will not be providing resources or links as we do not like pushing things out without having read them first and we cannot bring ourselves to read things that can get too close to specifics we experienced.

Note: Seeing as you are not fully certain if you have experienced this or not please do be careful. Wait to look into this until you're in an emotionally stable place. Especially the resources/information as they pretty much are bound to contain triggering content. If you feel off, bad, dissociative, or triggered, close the tab maybe turn off the device and calm down and wait at least a day to go back (we'd suggest longer but I know sometimes it's hard).

Gentle reminder that sharing what your disability is completely up to you no matter how “visibly” disabled you are. No one should make you disclose what your disability is to anyone you’re not comfortable with. You can choose to say as much or as little as you want.

Thank you for running this blog. I was held in troubled teen industry facilities for all of my teenagerhood, and am severely traumatized as a result, and it's been extremely hard to find words to describe what I went through to other systems or to trauma therapists.

It feels "too much", like there's no way this could all have happened to me, and I've been accused of lying about the organized abuse that went on there. Sometimes it feels almost like i AM lying, though I know I'm not.

Although feeling like I have "too much" trauma is something that I have to continue working on personally, I want to say thank you for pointing me in the direction of a framework that I can research and use that fits me more than any other one I've seen before.

I wish that none of us went through the horrors we went through, but I'm glad that there's a community out there and people talking about the things that have affected me. Thank you again for what you do running this blog.

Before anything else — thank you. This is an incredibly kind message and I'm really glad that you could find solace in this blog. I aim to provide resources that may not be (physically or emotionally) acessible otherwise, and highlight lesser-discussed aspects of RAMCOA.

The troubled teen industry is definitely part of the wider picture of organized abuse, and I wish it was put in that context more. Unfortunately, most discussions of RAMCOA focus on early childhood manifestations, and situations primarily focused on adolescents, adults, seniors aren't as referenced. Basically, the older the victim, the less likely it is to be included in definitions of RAMCOA; which is a shame, because those perspectives are crucial. Abusive care homes & inpatient facilities, prisons, and yes, troubled teen facilities are all forms of organized abuse in my mind, but the strong correlation with pedophile rings and cults has... Alienated? Many people from describing their experiences as OA.

I totally understand the feeling of having "too much trauma", and I feel like many survivors in general, not just ones of RAMCOA, can relate to that sentiment. "It's just too unlikely for all these things to have happened," I'll say to myself, "I must be exaggerating." Something that's helped me is the idea that some predators can smell blood in the water, and if all you know is hardship, it's hard to break out of hardship. Experiencing layers of trauma isn't... Rare, and you're not lying about it.

Once again, thank you. If you need any resources specific to the troubled teen industry, let me know. There's not a ton of research on it in the context of RAMCOA like I said, but I'm sure I'll find something of use.

Wishing you a gentle and fulfilling recovery. Aisling

⚠️TW- Talks of Death⚠️

However. However while it's true an alter within headspace cannot truly die and more goes into a "slumber" aka dormancy there are actual ways alters can "die".

•An alter who was front and experienced a near death experience might turn into a ghost alter

•An alter who has been dormant for so long and their amnesia walls are so high up could be considered dead

•For our System we have a Purgatory meaning that alters who no longer wish to be within the System will go into Purgatory where memories are "erased" and essentially are declared "deceased" as they no longer take front nor do they consider themselves to be associated with main Inner World, the Side System or even Subsystems.

•Purgatory Example-

Two of our alters/headmates were once considered to be "mortal" one is an adult trauma holder and another is a Little trauma holder.

The adult holder experienced a near death experience when front and in the Inner World got pushed into Purgatory. This one alter is the only alter that managed to escape from Purgatory with memories in tact.

The other alter to essentially "die" is our Little holder. This Little became a zombie. This Little willingly placed themselves in Purgatory due to the high stress of trauma.

These are just two possible examples plus one special of how an alter within headspace could "die" however an alter dying in the Inner World and no longer being of an existence is not possible as even if they turn into an undead or ghost alter they're still within the head.

The one and only way alters can truly die, cease to exist is when the body dies. With DID alters are created by and from the brain due to trauma. When humans pass, the brain will no longer function along with the rest of the body. This is the only way and how alters can truly die

♡ DID/OSDD Positivity! ♡

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ - alters been quiet for a while?  *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ - nonhuman alters? *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ - trans alters? *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ - little alters? *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ - fictive heavy systems? *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ - alters acting similar to the host? *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ - all persecutors are *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ -  all protectors/caregivers are *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ -  all trauma holders are *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ - your trauma is *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

(´,,•ω•,,)♡ - your disorder is *✧･ﾟ:* * VALID! *:･ﾟ✧*

Are you enabling people in your life?

Do you find yourself... * Lying or covering for other people? * Making excuses for someone else's crappy behavior? * Blaming yourself for someone else's crappy behavior, shortcomings, mistakes, etc.? * Swooping in and redoing tasks you've asked someone else to do, that you feel aren't getting done the "right" way? * Helping people who didn't ask for your help, or who said no when you asked if you could help them? * Giving people advice they didn't ask for or seek out? * Feeling resentful when you take on all these responsibilities for other people, even though no one forced you to? * Feeling used or taken advantage of? * Projecting your feelings onto other people? (i.e. When your partner's leaving dirty socks on the floor is no longer about dirty socks, but them not caring about you) * Feeling like you're being taken for granted or that your hard work is not being appreciated? * Feeling drained and exhausted, because you're taking on your own responsibilities plus everyone else's, and you're not taking care of your own needs? * Nagging or micromanaging? * Doing things for people that they are capable of doing for themselves, and should be doing for themselves? * Trying to manage other people's feelings or moods? * Always going along to get along? * Feeling like you're spread too thin? * Not having time and energy to do the things you want and need to do, because you're too busy taking care of everyone else? * Letting your needs fall by the wayside? * Feeling like others are not "pulling their weight?" * Feeling like you're doing more work than other people in your life? * "Checking in" a little too frequently when you delegate a task to someone else? * Always in a state of stress, chaos, and worry? * Worrying about how or whether they'd survive without you? * In an intimate relationship, feeling less like their partner and more like their parent? * Spending money you don't have or can't afford to spend on "helping" the people in your life? * Always getting sucked into drama you don't need to be involved in? * Giving out ultimatums? * Attempting to set a boundary, but then caving? * Doing things out of a sense of guilt or obligation? * Treating people less as people, but as fix-it projects? * Thriving on being the rescuer, the fixer, the go-to person, etc.? * Deriving a sense of self-worth and identity from such? * Feeling like a doormat that people wipe their dirty feet on? * Feeling responsible for other people's choices, feelings, words, and behavior? * Expecting people to read your mind, then getting upset when it turns out they can't? * Feeling like you're giving and giving and giving, and they're taking and taking and taking, and not giving you anything in return? * Trying to change other people's behavior? * Getting into one toxic relationship after another? * Feeling like you're a magnet for toxic people? * Feeling like you're losing yourself, or aren't being true to yourself? * Wearing too many hats? * Resenting the people in your life? * Not having an answer to the question, "Who are you outside of your role as _______?" * Constantly worrying about what other people will think? * Saying "yes" when you really want to say "no?"

Resources!!

There are many masterlists of resources for or about plurality, but we thought we'd make one about sites and posts that have been extremely helpful to us. Some resources are about overall plurality, some about headspaces, even some about alterhumans. This is a catch-all for helpful things and will always be in progress as we find more. If you would like us to add something, please tell us!

The Plurality Hub by the Heretic System

The Alterhuman Hub by the Heretic System

Alt + H: The Alterhuman Advocacy Group by Alt + H

The Chimeras Library by House of Chimeras (liongoatsnake)

Developing Internal Communication - Starting With The Basics by Kathy Broady MSW

All the Resources You'll Need to Build Your Own Wonderland, Headspace, or Inner World by Sophie in Wonderland

Power to the Plurals by The Plural Association Nonprofit

Here for the Plural Folk

Healthy Multiplicity by LB Lee and The Zyfron System

Tulpas and Mental Health: A Study of Non-Traumagenic Plural Experiences by John Doe, Jacob J Isler

Endogenic Systems by Plural Culture

More Than One

Plurality Resource

New Alter Rundown by the Heretic System

Plural Terms by Cluster Brains in collaboration with The Trifecta Collective and the Polybius Network

Multiplicity Database Systemology

A Tulpamancy Resource Site

Quick'n'Dirty Plural History by LB Lee

System Internet Safety by Sunflower

Pluralpedia

Alternatives to "System" When Choosing A Collective Name by The Xenodelic Effect

Tips if You're Having Trouble Visualizing Your Inner World by the Orange Orchard System

Multiplicity and Plurality Wiki

List of Tulpa Guides by Vos

The Plurality Playbook by Lucia Batman and Irene Knapp

Plurality Resources by Rolal District

Endogenic Hub

The Plural Dictionary

System Sources by Cluster Brains

Resources for Faceclaims/Forms by Wild Tulip Field

DID Basics by Cleveland Clinic

Simply Plural Website (There is also an app version)

System Communication and Journaling by The Wonderland System

safety planning resources

A safety plan is a personalized, practical plan to improve your safety while experiencing abuse, preparing to leave an abusive situation, or after you leave. This plan includes vital information tailored to your unique situation and will help you prepare for and respond to different scenarios suited to your individual circumstances. Including creating an emergency escape plan if you need to escape a violent situation, making your current circumstances safer, making sure your loved ones are safe, etc.

It can be hard to think clearly or make logical decisions during moments of crisis. Having a safety plan laid out in advance can help you protect yourself and others in high-stress situations. (hotline website). Safety planning is a top priority, whether you choose to remain in the home or leave. Making a safety plan involves identifying actions to increase your safety and that of your children. (Western centre for research and education on violence against women and children)

without further ado, here are a list of resources I’ve found especially useful. most of this is not specific to any particular location, although they do come from location specific resources so some parts of the resources may need to be adapted to your particular geographical/sociopolitical location (e.g., legal stuff like laws around bringing children with you, resources like shelters or hotline numbers). but the overall idea should be somewhat consistent.

resources list:

the toronto police victims services website actually had some great resources on safety planning.

complete victim services booklet (pdf)

how to access your safety (pdf)

planning for your children’s safety (pdf)

plan for safety leaving (pdf)

what to take with you when you leave (pdf)

what to put in your go bag (pdf)

plan your safety inside your home (pdf)

plan your safety outside (pdf)

Our Safety Planning Booklet is available in the following translations: Chinese | English | French | Hungarian | Japanese | Korean | Polish | Portugese | Spanish | Tagalog. To receive a copy of the translated Safety Planning Booklet, please contact our crisis counsellors by telephone 416-808-7066 to receive a copy via email or regular mail.

interactive guide to safety planning from the us’ national domestic violence hotline.

safety planning app (canada only)

how to plan for your safety (Canadian government, widely applicable)

the ones above are the ones i found the most useful personally. however, i’d like to add to this resource by providing more that are more location/language/need specific for folks, so i’ll try to come back to this and keep adding to it. if you have any others to add, please do.

women’s aid (uk resource, widely applicable advice)

australia, northside pdf

safety planning booklet (australia, pdf)

safety planning booklet (South Africa, pdf)

what is the difference between did, complex did, and highly complex did? where would a small system w a subsystem fall into that?

The differences are usually described as where they fall on the dissociation scale according to the Theory of Structural Dissociation (ToSD). Highly complex DID (HC-DID) does not have any medical recognition as far as I know, I believe it’s mostly a community term to bring survivors of RAMCOA programming together (please correct me if this is wrong). Distinctions in system structure between DID and complex/polyfragmented DID (C-DID or P-DID or PF-DID) have been documented, but literature on complex DID hasn’t been updated since the 1980s if I remember correctly.

Within the community, distinctions are made as follows:

DID is defined as two or more alters and amnesia between parts. This is distinguished from OSDD-1a, which does not include distinct parts, and OSDD-1b, which does not include dissociative amnesia (dissociative amnesia in DID can manifest as gaps in important life events, lapses in memory of recent events or well-learned skills such as driving, and discovery of possessions the patient does not remember owning or purchasing).

C-DID is not so much determined by alter count (as people have claimed it is) than it is determined by the actual structure and features of the system. For example: C-DID is more likely to have a complex and expansive innerworld, complex splitting patterns (splitting multiple alters at once, splitting groups, splitting a few fully formed alters and a group of fragments, etc.), and subsystems (alters with alters). It has also been said that polyfragmentation is a phenomenon that starts with normalized, everyday abuse and trauma before the age of 5.

Do you have any advice for how to approach a situation where you find out that the system is much bigger than you originally thought and there has been like another group of people functioning deeper inside your mind because I just found out that our system runs so much deeper than I thought it did and it's kinda freaking me out.

Thanks

(Also I love your blog)

Hey anon,

I've had this in my ask box for a few days trying to figure out how to answer this in a way that would be helpful and insightful. A big goal of mine for my future is to be able to educate people and help people with and without CDDs who are in places that I or my wife/friends may have been in the past. This situation you're describing is something I went through right around mid August. The only reason I actually know when I started learning these things was because I have a frantic email I sent my therapist with the subject line "Ah shit, here we go again" with a screenshot of that very quote from GTA. It's an inside joke between our therapist and I because it seems like whenever something really wild happens that I really didn't see coming I preface with "Ah shit, here we go again." and that's how she knows it's going to be a doozy of a session or email.

(small TW ahead for mentions of unaliving oneself, nothing detailed, just mentioned)

So in all honesty I feel like I don't have super proper advice for you in this regard. Not in the way you may have been hoping or wanting, as I am still new to learning parts and subsystems. I know about four subsystems right now, other parts keep alluding to something else that's hidden from me that's like a Big thing, and it's a...it's a lot! I understand how you're feeling to some degree here. The very first time I started piecing together the subsystem stuff I swore I was ready to do the unalive. And uh, unfortunately, I almost did because of parts who were created to commit suicide in this very instance. I wasn't supposed to know about that stuff. Past suicide attempts seem to line up with that same narrative. Every time I was learning something I was not supposed to know, one of our secondary gatekeepers would throw a suicidal alter into the front and essentially let it happen. Thankfully, we've had either our spouse or other alters be able to step in at the last second, parts that don't want these things to occur. We're working on deconstructing that particular program now and it's been fairly successful, thankfully.

I talk about that not because I think all systems with subsystems or whatever happens going on in your system have suicide programs, but because this information you are suddenly learning is likely meant to be hidden. Subsystems typically don't occur for shits and giggles. From my limited knowledge (reminder, I am not a professional at this so if anyone has better info than me or any additional info or resources, please say so) of subsystems, typically they form for specific purposes. One purpose could be to separate various traumas at different time periods of the system's life. So for example, we have an entire subsystem (our largest subsystem as far as I know) dedicated to our very early life trauma that began long before our RAMCOA type abuse occurred. Those things happened likely around the ages of 3 to 5. The RAMCOA abuse occurred around age 7 or so, as far as I'm aware. None of the main system or any of the other subsystems were aware of the early life subsystem, only our gatekeepers knew about them.

Other reasons subsystems can occur is to separate a specific type of abuse that the system/brain finds particularly disturbing and needs to be separated from the rest of the system. We don't have these, but I've heard of folks whose main system typically has the "less severe" trauma and subsystems hold "more severe" trauma OR trauma that needs to be kept completely deep down and away from the front area, like CSEM production OR incest with a member of their household that they have to live with all the time. If you're around that family member all the time you're not going to be able to function if you have even an inkling of those things occurring, so your brain might separate all of that into a subsystem to keep the rest of the system safe. While the rest of the system might deal with other forms of trauma such as neglect, medical trauma, emotional abuse/manipulation, bullying, etc.

The last reason that subsystems might exist, and this is only our personal experience because I have never met another system whose subsystems are like this, but subsystems may exist to keep certain parts of memories separate from the rest of the system. Which, I've mentioned I was going to go into our system structure in more detail before and so I'm not going to do a deep dive in this ask, but essentially as abuse was escalating, our system realized that a single alter cannot hold the entire memory of abuse that was occurring, and so what happened was we'd split a fragment (which our system labels as "china dolls" even though they're really not that) and they get cracked apart and split up, essentially. So one subsystem holds only the pain of that particular memory, another subsystem holds only the emotional toll of that particular memory, another subsystem holds only the visual or auditory sensations of that particular memory, etc. So, in essence, for a single occurrence of trauma, a splitting pattern happens where we end up splitting anywhere from 2-5 fragments to hold bits and pieces of a single memory. So those subsystems keep those fragments separated so that we don't have to be overwhelmed by the entire memory being whole.

From all of the above information it's probably going to make subsystems sound like a super horrific thing, and while I really want to be comforting and help you through this with some encouragement, subsystems are typically because something happened that needed to be kept completely separate from the rest of the system, which is usually not a good thing.

However, to actually answer your question, how to cope? Um. Good question, because I'm barely coping with my own situation right now. BUT, one thing that has helped me kind of stop freaking out about it is that I have accepted that I will learn things when the time is right. Every time I've tried to go digging or I got curious or something I regretted it. I learned very quickly WHY these things are separate. I learned as a host that I really really should not fuck around because I WILL find out, and it has pretty much every single time been far more devastating that I could have even imagined.

So my advice to you is "Don't go digging!" Because often, system information (especially if you're currently in therapy with a specialist) will become known with time. Be patient. Don't do the "nosy host" thing unless you are in an environment where you have someone who knows what's going on and can keep you safe in case you learn something very distressing that will make you want to go down the sewer slide. Being a system is not a fun time when you're discovering this stuff. I'm very open about loving our system and loving our parts and thanking them for what they've done for me, but that doesn't erase how difficult and scary it can be when you start learning things that you never knew you never knew. Hang in there, anon. DMs are open if you want to discuss this further. Anyone is free to DM or send asks about these things and I'll answer when I can. :)

-Dorian

(Note: Endos please do not interact with this post, as subsystems are a product of serious trauma and are not something that I think could ever be replicated in the way that a traumagenic system's subsystems would occur. They require extreme levels of amnesia and are typically complex, something that a created system would very likely not be able to replicate in the way like OP and I are talking about. This post is for folks with trauma-based CDDs only, not other forms of plurality.)