I don’t intend to comment on every episode, just the ones I haven’t talked about yet or the ones I feel need to be given more in-depth discussion. Let’s begin:
“Tick-Tick-Tick” - First episode, not much to complain about here, but I do have one thing that irks me; the detention gang are never seen or mentioned again, with the exception of maybe Mike, as a guy who looks just like him is seen on the football team in a later episode. He is not addressed by name, however, so I’m not going to assume it’s Mike. The point of the episode was that Kim learns the detention gang are not all that bad, but then they’re never seen or mentioned again. They’re not even in the background. It kind of defeats the purpose of the lesson.
I also feel like this episode would have been a good chance to play into Kim’s “driven to excel” traits and have her hate the idea of detention because she’s afraid of how it will affect her future, and she learns one detention won’t ruin her future. You know, a reason for thinking detention is for losers, instead of just her being a cheerleader.
“Bueno Nacho” - I did mention in a previous post that I hate that Kim forged an application for Ron before ever talking to him about it. Honestly, they could’ve just had Kim entice Ron to take the job by mentioning some kind of benefits i.e. employee discount, one free meal while on shift. There was no reason for Kim to unilaterally make the decision, and she seems majorly controlling for doing so. Your protagonist’s mistakes should come from a lack of knowledge, not a lack of consideration. You can teach people to communicate, you can’t teach them to care.
“Attack of the Killer Bebes” - I wish the creators had delved more into Kim’s feelings. She thinks Ron being a cheerleader would be mortifying, and she hates the idea of him as the mascot. But we never learn why. There’s a line at the beginning that would indicate Kim just wanted something for herself, but the creators don’t expand on that. Instead, we get Kim just insulting Ron for the rest of the episode. It would have been more interesting if it was about Kim struggling to keep something for herself without Ron, and learning that even with Ron as the mascot, cheerleading will still always be her thing. Your protagonist should have deep thoughts and feelings that get explored, not just hinted at.
“The New Ron” - One of my most hated episodes for the way Kim treated Ron, but my rewrite would probably fix it. Ron agrees to a new haircut to appease Kim, and tries to like it but he’s miserable and he stays miserable. Kim learns she can be too pushy sometimes and needs to lay off, and Ron learns his best friend cares more about his feelings than his appearance, so it’s okay to say no to her. Your hero shouldn’t be causing harm to others just because she wants to; that’s not a hero, that’s a villain.
“Number One” - A few options for rewrites; Kim actually tries to prove she’s the better captain instead of just expecting Bonnie to fail on her own, or Bonnie stays captain and we get to explore how Kim handles not being in charge. Your character isn’t skilled and talented if she has everything handed to her instead of working for it.
Also, it would be nice if Will was actually competent, instead of taking credit for the mission. Give Kim an actual rival. Seriously, a highly-trained government agent isn’t on par with an amateur? It’s ridiculous. Your female protagonist isn’t good if you have to dumb down the world to make her shine.
“Sink or Swim” - Minor change; with how big Barkin is, and his military experience, he should’ve made more noise while being abducted. We could’ve had a shadow drag him off while he tells Kim to warn the others. That would’ve played into the horror movie parody quite nicely.
“Crush” - I feel like instead of Kim ignoring a call from Wade that was definitely important because Wade doesn’t make social calls, she should’ve just not gotten a call. I mean, how would Wade even know Ron was trapped in the closet anyways? Ron doesn’t have a Kimmunicator. It wouldn’t change much to be honest, and it also wouldn’t have Kim ignoring an urgent attempt at communication.
“October 31st” - Kim should take more precautions with the bracelet. Maybe it gets stuck to her wrist because the tweebs grab it and it gets stuck to her wrist in the ensuing fight. There’s also the issue of lying, but we could just have her nervous about spending time with Josh and having that be enough to set off the armor. That way, it’s basically the same plot, but without Kim being thoughtless, reckless, and deliberately misleading everyone she cares about.
“The Twin Factor” - Honestly, I would take out the whole “gag” about Kim using mind control on her brothers. The whole point of the episode is that mind control is wrong and bad, but the point gets muted when our hero is doing it to children. I’m not sure what gag I would replace it with, but nothing that jokes about mind control. I like that Kim’s parents were upset, but they should’ve been more upset. Outraged, even. And Kim should’ve faced actual consequences.
“Job Unfair” - I’m not sure this episode had a lesson. If it was meant to be “all jobs are important” then the lesson is pointless by having the “janitor” revealed to actually be a Canadian spy. Instead, we could have Kim decide to focus on her work-study anyways, and learn how to disable the weather machine by sheer coincidence, because the janitor is an actual janitor and not secretly a spy. As for Ron’s mentor, it could be revealed that the spy had been trying to get to Kim, but she was already taken by the janitor so he went to Ron instead.
“Grudge Match” - This episode had a scene where Ron mentions people might think he and Kim were on a date. Instead of using this as a moment to hint at Kim and Ron ending up together, Kim mocks and insults Ron for that statement. We could have Kim and Ron nervously discussing whether people think of them as a couple, before Kim (or Wade) brings them back to focus, but Kim mocking and insulting Ron for insinuating people might think they date is not a good way to hint at the endgame ship.
Also, I feel like instead of Kim “fudging” by telling Ron he might stand a chance with Zita, we should have her actually believe it could happen. This is a guy she supposedly develops romantic feelings for later, but instead of hinting at that, she apparently thinks he’s so much of a loser that even a girl none of them know anything about could do better.
“The Ron Factor” - I understand they had to change the ending of the episode because it was too sexist, but this episode chronologically takes place after “A Sitch in Time”, where we learn Ron is essential to Kim’s success (though no one remembers that timeline so I’ll cut them some slack there) and Ron defeated the villain this time. Not Kim, Ron. If they didn’t want it to seem like Ron was the secret to Kim’s success, they shouldn’t have made that a plot point of the movie, nor should they have Ron defeating the villain. Kim did almost nothing in this episode aside from telling Ron he was getting a big head (which he was) and complaining about GJ thinking Ron was the secret to her success (again, he was).
“Adventures in Rufus-Sitting” - I’ve talked about this episode before, so my rewrite is simple; have Kim take actual precautions with the microchip. We could still have Rufus accidentally eat it; maybe while looking for a snack he finds it and eats it. But Kim took no precautions with the top-secret microchip she was meant to guard, and that is seriously disappointing. If your female protagonist won’t take basic precautions with things she’s supposed to guard, she’s not a good guardian.
“Exchange” - When Kim decides she likes Hirotaka, she has Wade track his movements to arrange an “accidental” run-in with him to ask him out. She’s known him for less than a week and is already stalking him. It’s creepy and obsessive and this needs to not happen. Honestly, that whole scene could go like this; Kim returns from a mission, notices Hirotaka, panics, plays cool, decides to ask him out, continues as canon. If your female character is stalking her crush, it’s not funny, it’s creepy.
Interesting to note: Hirotaka looks a lot like Will Du’s original concept Ken Du.
“Queen Bebe” - Honestly, I do have complaints about this episode, and I’ve mentioned it in a previous post, but I’m not actually sure how I’d go about rewriting it. Kim’s inability to fulfill her obligations (that she volunteered for) is not only disappointing but also letting down her school. I can kind of understand her refusal to ask for help, especially from Bonnie, but at the very least, clubs and committees should be hesitant to let her join in the future because of this.
“Hidden Talent” - Not cool of Ron to sign Kim up for the talent show without talking to her about it first, but it definitely wasn’t cool of Kim to threaten Ron with physical violence over it. He might not have seemed afraid, but that doesn’t make it okay.
Honestly, it would be very in character for Kim to sign herself up because of anger and pride, so there was no need for Ron to do it.
“Return to Wannaweep” - Kim sabotages Bonnie, her own teammate, just because she wants a plastic stick painted gold. A stick she admits to only wanting so Bonnie can’t have it. Sure, Kim’s competitive. But this kind of competitiveness, sabotaging her own teammate to make herself stand out more, would get her kicked off the squad. Obviously, if they want Kim and Bonnie sabotaging each other, they should have Bonnie start it. Your heroine doesn’t get to be called a role model when she’s starting conflicts for her own personal interests.
Also, despite Gil having tried something evil before, Kim refuses to take any of Ron’s concerns about him seriously because she’s too preoccupied with her rivalry with Bonnie. A heroine ignoring potential danger because she doesn’t care is not a good heroine.
“Blush” - I can understand Kim wanting to go on a date with Josh, but he would’ve understood Kim needing to stay home for her own safety. She was at risk of literally disappearing.
“Oh Boyz” - Sure, everyone stopped liking the Oh Boyz, but the timing implies Kim stopped liking them specifically because Ron started liking them. I just feel like there’s too much of that in this show; Ron’s interests being “uncool” or “embarrassing”.
“Rewriting History” - This episode introduced interesting new layers to the characters and their relationships, except it didn’t because it was all a dream. I hate that. Honestly, I feel like the episode should have just ended with Kim saving Drakken and Shego and clearing her great-aunt’s name. No “it was all a dream” shenanigans.
“Showdown at the Crooked D” - Kim tricked Ron into going. He told her he wanted to laze about for the summer, she invited him to a place called The Lazy C, and then deliberately didn’t tell him until after they arrived and he had no way to back out that it was a working ranch. A lie by omission is still a lie. Your female hero shouldn’t be doing this to her friends.
"Emotion Sickness” - Another episode that could’ve hinted at Kim and Ron getting together, but instead Ron seemed uncomfortable with the whole idea. Nervous. Terrified. It didn’t seem like he wanted to be in a relationship with her. Having one character be uncomfortable with the idea of dating another is not a good way to hint at a ship.
"Bonding” - Mostly I hate that both Bonnie and Barkin were given character development, and then it’s gone for the rest of the series.
“Bad Boy” - Another episode to hint at a ship, and it didn’t do a good job. Having both characters be uncomfortable with the idea of dating each other doesn’t imply a ship either.
“Team Impossible” - As I mentioned, most of my frustration with this episode comes from the reason they gave for wanting Kim out of the business; profit. There are so many valid reasons, and Team Impossible could’ve been mentors. If you need to make the professionals incompetent for your character to stand out, your character isn’t good enough.
“And the Mole Rat Will Be CGI” - Honestly, my big issue here is that Kim, once again, is ignoring Ron’s feelings on something that will affect him.
“So The Drama” - I made a whole post about this, so I’ll be brief. Getting Kim and Ron together by introducing a “perfect” guy for Kim and then removing him as an option completely is lazy writing. I understand it was supposed to be the end of the series, but while we see a lot of Ron pining over Kim, we don’t see any of Kim possibly having feelings for Ron. The implication is that, if Eric were still an option, Kim and Ron wouldn’t be together. That’s not true love, that’s Ron being Kim’s rebound guy.
“The Big Job” - Kim complains about Ron using coupons to fund their dates, to high end expensive restaurants, but she never offers to pay. She is asking for more from Ron than he is able to give. And she, once again, has things literally handed to her. In this case, Monique literally gives her a job just so she could inspire Ron to get one.
“Fashion Victim” - I find it hard to believe Kim didn’t know she was risking Monique’s and Wade’s futures by trying to get them help her break the NDA Monique signed. She has worked on top-secret projects before; she’s definitely signed a few of those. Your heroine shouldn’t be risking others for her own gain.
“Grande Size Me” - The movie this episode was based off of has been proven to have been faked. This whole episode would need to be rewritten.
TW: This episode contains scenes that would be triggering for people with body image issues, eating disorders, or fears of Kaiju.
I did have more thoughts, but they felt too nitpicky. I tried to stick to the ones I had major problems with, and bolded the advice I would give on how to avoid some of those problems.
Did... Did Nathalie stealth use That Guy's emotions to make Animaestro or does she just have such perfect control over the Peacock that he didn't need to be anything more than inspiration?
Honestly, does anyone really get how the Peacock works on it's own? I just assume that if Emilie can make An Adrien based off her own or Gabriel's emotions, it's not unthinkable that Nathalie wouldn't even need the director to be involved in creating a Sentimonster from his emotions or just in his likeness.
Unfortunately, all the examples we physically get to see In Canon has Mayura channeling through an akuma or through Hawkmoth himself, making them packaged deals.
Early in season four we get the episode Gang of Secrets. An episode that ends with Marinette outing her secret identity to Alya. A touching moment that sparked outrage across the fandom because it meant that Marinette had made the choice to reveal her identity to her best friend while keeping her hero partner in the dark.
This choice spat in the face of the exceptions that many fans had for the series. Thousands of pre-season-four fanfics feature moments where Ladybug and Chat Noir promise each other that they'll be the first to know each other's identities. After the Alya reveal, scores of fanfics were written to salt on Marinette's choice to tell the "wrong" person.
Most of these fics feature a betrayed Chat Noir quitting or otherwise punishing Ladybug for breaking their promise to be each other's first, thereby destroying his faith in their partnership. But that promise was never made on screen. It only existed in the realms of fanfic and, when Chat Noir finally found out in canon, his reaction was largely neutral. He never once blamed Ladybug for her choice or pushed for a reveal or even asked for the right to tell one of his friends.
So what happened here? Why did the fans have such wildly unrealistic expectations of canon? Were their expectations even unrealistic or did canon betray them? The answer to that is not as straight forward as you might think because it all comes back to one of Miraculous' many, many, many writing problems: Miraculous is trying to be both a Magical Girl Show and a romantic comedy, but those are not genres that mesh. You can only be one (or you can be a third thing that we'll get to at the end as it's the easiest way to fix this mess, but I want to mostly focus on where the anger is coming from and why the writing is to blame.)
To discuss this mismatch, we're going to do something that breaks my heart and talk about some of Origins flaws. While I love that episode and unironically refer to it as the best writing the show ever gave us, it's not perfect and its flaws are all focused around trying to set up both genres. Do note that I'm going to use a lot of gender binary language here as magical girl shows have a strong focus on gender segregation and rarely if ever acknowledge gender diversity.
Magical girl shows are shows that center on young women and their friendships. While male love interests are often present in these shows, the boys tend to take a backseat and function primarily as arm candy while the girls save the day and carry the narrative.
A great example of this is the show Winx Club. This show features a large cast of teenage girls who save the magical universe from various threats with their magical powers. Each girl has a love interest, but the boys are usually off doing their own thing and only occasionally show up for a date or to give the girls a ride on their cool bikes or magical spaceship. I don't even think that we see the guys fight or, if we do, it's a rare thing. They are not there to save the day. They are there to be shipping fodder.
Like most magical girl shows, Winx Club starts with the main character making friends with one of the girls who will eventually become part of her magical girl squad. This brings us back to Miraculous.
Did you ever find it weird that Origins implies that Marinette has no friends? She doesn't even have a backbone until new girl Alya shows up to become Marinette's First Real Friend:
Marinette: I so wish I can handle Chloé the way you do. Alya: You mean the way Majestia does it. She says all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good people do nothing. (pointing at Chloé) Well, that girl over there is evil, and we are the good people. We can't let her get away with it.
This is a bizarre opening because Miraculous is not about Marinette making friends or learning to stand up for herself. If you skipped Origins and just watched the rest of the show, then you'd have no clue that Marinette wasn't close with her classmates before this year. You also wouldn't know that Alya was new in town and you definitely wouldn't know that Marinette had never stood up to Chloé before this year. So why is this here? Why waste screen time setting up elements that aren't actually important to canon?
Miraculous did it for the same reason that Winx Club did it: magical girl shows traditionally start with the main character making friends with at least one of her eventual female teammates because Magical Girl shows are all about the girls and their relationships. The boys are just arm candy.
But Miraculous isn't a magical girl show. The writers have explicitly stated that it's a rom-com and romantic comedies aren't about female friendship. They might have female friendships in them, but that's not where the focus is. The focus of a rom-com is on the romance and Origins is very clearly all about the romance.
Origins has a lot on its plate. It has to establish the villain's motivation for the first time, show us how the heroes got their miraculous, show us how the heroes first met on both sides of the mask, show us how they met their respective best friends, and show us how the heroes dealt with their first akuma. It would be perfectly understandable if this 40 minute two-parter didn't do anything with the romance. They have a full show to give us that!
In spite of this, Origins has some incredibly touching moments for both Ladynoir and Adrienette because romance is the heart of Miraculous. It is the main focus of the show. The driving motivation for both of our leads and the majority of the show's episodes. To tell the story of how their journey started without at least one of them falling in love would feel wrong. That's why we see both of them fall in love!
First we get Chat Noir giving his heart to his bold and brilliant lady, then we get Marinette's heart being stolen by the shy sweet boy who never once thought to blame her for her snap judgement of his character. We even get a touching moment where Chat Noir inspires his lady to accept her role and be Ladybug, leading her to boldly face their enemy and call him out:
Roger: I have a new plan, unlike you! Move aside and let the pros do their thing. You've already failed once! Ladybug: …He's right, you know. If I'd captured Stoneheart's akuma the first time around, none of this would have happened! I knew I wasn't the right one for this job… Cat Noir: No. He's wrong, because without you, she'd no longer be here. (they look at Chloe) And because without us, they won't make it, and we'll prove that to 'em. Trust me on this. Okay? Ladybug: Okay.
I love this moment, but it does lose a little of its power when you remember that we had an Alya-driven variation of this exact same thing five minutes prior:
Alya: HELP!! (Marinette suddenly gets filled with courage. She gets the case out of Alya's bag and puts on the Miraculous. Then, Tikki appears, happy to see Marinette again.) Tikki:(raising her arms) Mmmm! Marinette: I think I need Ladybug! Tikki: I knew you'd come around! Marinette: Well, I'm still not sure I'm up for this, but Alya's in danger. I can't sit back and do nothing.
This scene initially confused me because - if Miraculous is a rom-com - then why would you make Alya the reason that Marinette became Ladybug? Why wouldn't you have Chat Noir be the one in danger so that Marinette chose to fight because of her love interest and then encourage that bond with the later scene of him encouraging her? Why split the focus like this? Why give Alya so much attention?
In case you haven't figured it out, it's because Origins is trying to establish two different genres of show. Two genres that will continue to fight for the rest of the series (or at least the first five seasons).
Why is Alya the one to shake off the nightmare dust and inspire the others during the season five finale? Why is Alya the one that Marinette trusts with all of her plans while Chat Noir is kept in the dark? Why does Alya and Marinette's friendship get so much more focus than Adrien and Nino's? Why was Alya the only temp hero who got upgraded to full time hero?
It's because Alya is Marinette's second in command in a magical girl show and magical girl shows focus on female friendships while the boys are just there to be cute and support the girls.
Why do most of Marinette's talks with Alya focus on Adrien? Why is Chat Noir the only other full time holder of a Miraculous for the first three seasons and then again for the final season? Why do Marinette's friends become more and more obsessed with Adrienentte as the show goes on? Why is the love square's identity reveal given so much more narrative weight than any other identity reveal?
It's because Miraculous is a rom-com and the love square is our end game couple, so of course the story focuses on their relationship above all else!
Are you starting to see the problem?
Circling back to our original question: no, it was not unreasonable for the fans to expect that the Alya reveal would have massive negative consequences for Ladynoir. That is what should happen in a rom-com and Miraculous is mainly written like a rom-com. But the writers are also trying to write a magical girl show and, in a magical girl show, Alya and Marinette's friendship should be the most important relationship in the show, so it makes perfect sense that the show treats the Alya reveal as perfectly fine because the Alya reveal was written from the magical girl show perspective.
When it comes to Miraculous, if you ever feel like a writing choice makes no sense for genre A, re-frame it as a thing from genre B and it suddenly makes perfect sense which is fascinatingly terrible writing! It's no wonder there are people who hate the Alya reveal and people who will defend it with their life. It all depends on which genre elements you've picked up on and clung to. Neither side is right, they've both been set up to have perfectly valid expectations. Whether those expectations are valid for a given episode is entirely up to the mercurial whims of the writers!
At this point, I don't think that we can, the show is too far gone, but if someone gave me the power to change one element of Miraculous, that element would be this: scrap both the magical girl stuff and the rom-com stuff and turn Miraculous into a team show where the friendships transcend gender.
At this point, I've written over a quarter of a million words of fanfic focused on these characters (the brain rot is real) and one thing I've discovered is that it is damn near impossible to keep Adrien and Alya from becoming friends. They're both new to their school while Marinette and Nino have gone to the same school for at least a few years. Alya and Adrien are both obsessed with Ladybug plus Adrien is a natural hype man who loves to support his friends and Alya loves to talk about her blog. Alya is dating Adrien's best friend. On top of that, Alya, Adrien, Nino, and Marinette are all in the same class, meaning that they pretty much have to be spending time together five days a week unless French school don't give kids a chance to socialize or do group projects. If so, then judging them for the first issue, but super jealous of the latter.
Given all of that, why in the world is does it feel like Alya is Marinette's close friend while Adrien is just some guy who goes to Alya's school? Along similar lines, while canon Marinette barely talks to Nino, I've found that Marinette and Nino tend to get along smashingly, especially if you embrace the fact that they have to have known each other for at least a few years.
If you embrace this wider friendship dynamic and scrap the girl squad, replacing it with Alya, Adrien, Marinette, and Nino, then the fight for narrative importance quickly goes away. It's no longer a question of is this episode trying to be a magical girl show or a rom-com? Instead, the question is: which element of the friend group is getting focused on today? The romance or the friendship?
A lot of hero shows do this and do it well. I think that one of the most well known examples is Teen Titans. That show has five main characters and the focus is usually on their friendships, but there is a very clear running romantic tension between the characters Robin and Starfire with several episodes giving a good deal of focus to their romance. I'd say that this element really starts in the show's the 19th episode - Date with Destiny - and it all culminates in the movie that capstones the series: Trouble in Tokyo. The character Beast Boy also gets a romance arc and, while it's more short lived, it's further evidence that you can have strong romances and strong friendships in the same show and even the same episode. You just have to own the fact that boys and girls can be friends with each other, a very logical thing to embrace when your show has decided to have a diverse cast of heroes instead of imposing arbitrary gender limitations on its magical powers.
I couldn't figure out a way to work this into the main essay, but it's relevant so I wanted to quickly point it out and give you more to think about re Origins. Have you ever found it weird how Origins gives both Adrien AND Marinette the "I've never had friends before" backstory and yet wider canon acts like Marinette has this strong amazing friend group while Adrien doesn't seem to care about making friends and instead focuses all his energy on romance? Why give both the protagonist and the supposed deuteragonist this kind of origin if it's not going to be a major element of the show? It makes so much more sense to only give one of them this backstory and then focus that person's character arc on learning about friendship.
Not sure if you considered this, but does Ms. Bustier's partner agree with her teaching methods, given how supportive she was in canon?
I imagine Giselle gets a very...biased reimagining of what happens in Bustier's class. She's only got Caline to go off of sooooo...
One of the reasons I refuse to watch Rainbow World is because its introduction completely derailed a plot that could have led to character development.
"The Big Day Off" showed everyone getting a day off of classes and assignments, and showed them dealing with problems during them.
Jade and Skyler want to spend their time relaxing, but both have a hard time doing nothing so they keep finding new tasks to do.
Bella and Ruby are planning to revamp the Rainbow Union, but have gotten artist's block and can't come up with anything.
Poppy's planning to bake and Amaya's freaking out over an online personality test.
Violet and Sunny were planning to have a fun day together.
This where the problem arises.
When we make it to Violet and Sunny's part of the story, Violet realizes she lost her phone and freaks out about it.
Now, we could have had a plot of Violet struggling with her social media addiction while spending time with Sunny, but, instead, Sunny and Violet find a magic egg and spend the day taking care of it so any conflict that they might have had is overshadowed.
I would have liked it better if we had Sunny and Violet doing fun things together, and Violet keeps instinctively reaching for her phone. Sunny notices, and eventually she's just sad.
Violet: "Sunny, what's wrong? Aren't you having fun?"
Sunny: "I am. I just...I miss you."
Violet: "I've been right across the hall for months. I think it's the closest we've ever been. Aside from all those sleepovers."
Sunny: "I don't mean physical distance."
Violet: "What do you mean?"
Sunny: "I mean...I totally support your dream of being an influencer, but I miss being able to do things with you without you trying to get the best shot. I miss just having fun with you, without you worrying about showing the rest of the world. I miss you. I think I've seen your phone's camera more than you, lately."
Violet: "Oh. I didn't know you felt that way."
Sunny: "I'm trying to be supportive. You're my best friend and I want to support you."
Violet: "I don't want you to support me if it upsets you. I guess I do have a problem."
Sunny: "I mean, I wouldn't say it's a problem..."
Violet: "But it is, because it upsets you so much. I don't want to upset my friends, especially you. I'm going to try to do better, Sunny. I promise."
Sunny: "Thanks. And I guess I'll start telling you when you do something that upsets me."
Violet: "I'd like that."
Then, Sunny and Violet would hug and discuss their plans for the rest of the day.
See how interesting this would have been? We could have had acknowledgement of not just Violet's greatest flaw (social media addiction) but also Sunny's (overly forgiving and passive) with them both recognizing their flaws and promising to work on them.
Instead, we have Sunny and Violet taking care of an egg all day.
They deserved better.
I think this is all a consequence of the show never allowing Kim to be flawed.
There’s a very niche type of story, with very specific plot that I love within the fandom that (a very, very specific type of KimRon story) that fixes a lot of my issues with the way Kim and some aspects of Kim and Ron were portrayed.
But this ask is getting far too long, I’ll talk about it another time.
We have very different perspectives, but I would love to talk more about the show with you , if you want , you could DM me if you ever up to talking more about the show, you have some interesting takes. 5_5
Yeah, Kim was meant to be perfect from the beginning, so her flaws aren't acknowledged or corrected.
Frankly, after 20 years, it doesn't work for me anymore.
To me, Kim is unrelatable because she succeeds at most things way too easily. And she's unlikeable because she's extremely controlling, competitive, rude, judgmental, and condescending, and refuses to acknowledge it might be a bad thing, even when it hurts people she cares about.
I'd be interested in hearing about this type of story, maybe you could send me a link some time.
And I would love to talk Kim Possible with you, but I can't DM you - you sent all these anonymously, so I have no idea who you are!
Not the same anon but Kim has the right to get annoyed at the coupon thing, that scene gave me second hand embarrassment and i think is incredible ooc when Ron in previous seasons had already done things like get a job and being good at it and done things like buy Kim jackets plus there were the Naco royalties.
I feel like at that point, money shouldn’t be an issue specially for Ron, this is a case where the narrative ignored previous episodes to make a situation feasible. i didn’t like it either because Ron was made to look pretty bad as well.
His comedic relief status allows this scene to happen and is juts harmless comedy at the end of the day , but I wasn’t fan of how his character was portrayed in season 4 Ron usually got flanderized just for some cheap humor.
So, honestly, I'd be embarrassed, too.
Though, I can't remember the last time a high schooler, even a senior one, put so much stock into going to nice restaurants and not having to use the coupon and/or kid's menu to pay for it.
A real high schooler probably wouldn't care too much about how much the dates cost, but they would be embarrassed by the "doofy" and "stupido" thing, so I'll give you that.
Let me try making my complaint clear; Kim could fix the problems with their dating sitch herself, she just won't.
If Kim is embarrassed, she could offer to pay. She got a job way easier than Ron did.
Not to mention that, according to the narrative, Ron lost all his Naco money, and isn't shown ever getting more, so it's not like she thought he was rich again.
But Kim doesn't offer to pay, and also complains about how their date nights have gotten stale.
Again, I can't remember real high schoolers putting so much stock into doing something new and exciting for dates.
When Ron takes her to a nice dinner at the Actuary of Year Awards, where Ron's dad is receiving an award, she mopes the whole time.
She doesn't even pretend to be happy for Mr. Stoppable, she just mopes.
Can you imagine being happy if your significant other, one you've known most of your life, moped and pouted at a ceremony where your dad was receiving an award?
I don't think either of them is too OOC in "The Big Job" - Ron doesn't really like doing a lot of work for things he's not interested in, and Kim has a bad habit of caring too much about the price tag.
And that's honestly the worst part; they are acting in character.
But that doesn't make it right. Or fair.
Why does Ron get criticized for a having to use coupons to fund their dates to places most high schoolers couldn't afford to go to anyways?
Why is it bad that Ron doesn't pay for their dates without coupons, but not bad that Kim doesn't pay for their dates at all?
Sure, the whole "you're twelve" thing was embarrassing, but Kim's complaint wasn't about that one incident, it's about him using coupons at all.
If Kim thinks their date nights have hit a rut, she should probably offer ideas for dates, instead of just complaining about it and moping when Ron actually does take her to a new, fancy event for a date.
Okay, I get that the Actuary of the Year Awards probably wasn't very exciting, but it was Ron's dad receiving an award, she could have at least been happy for him.
But she pouts instead.
Basically, it feels like Ron is putting all the effort into pleasing Kim, and Kim keeps complaining about it. She offers no actual solutions, or gratitude for how hard Ron's trying, but complains about it all the same.
And she's not putting in that same amount of effort to please Ron.
Why don't they ever do something Ron would like for a date? Like go see "The Finger Guy" or a wrestling event?
I mean, they probably go to Bueno Nacho all the time, but it's not as though Kim doesn't like the place - she's willingly gone there without Ron before.
So, why is Kim the only one who gets special dates?
They're supposed to be partners, but their dates only reflect Kim's desires and interests; none of Ron's desires or interests are shown for their dates.
Ron seems to be the only one putting in effort to please their partner.
And that's not how healthy relationships work.
But that’s more of a problem with the show’s narrative rather than with Kim’s character.
And is super weird because Ron already gets a lot of spotlight from the series, he gets entire episodes where he does solo missions and succeeds, and even the series acknowledges from time to time how important he is to Kim’s success.
But those moments are few and far between, and right after that and most of the time he is back at being treated as the sidekick and as a liability even as a joke by the narrative and even by other characters and villains.
He is the sidekick, he is the comic relief. The show is called Kim possible after all. Kim is the Hero and Ron’s the sidekick. And that’s fair.
This is a comedic miseries and a girl empowerment show first and foremost. I don’t want to sound too harsh. The show at least acknowledges that Ron can be capable and has entire episodes dedicated to how much Kim needs him. Shouldn’t that be enough?
But it never stopped treating Ron as a sidekick and I get that’s the joke, but his character clearly developed far beyond that and I agree with you in that he deserves a little more respect from the show’s narrative.
Usually I dislike those type of stories, but now I can finally understand where those stories where Ron goes to Japan or becomes a superhero,even come from.
He is the most relatable character and a part of the fandom want to see him succeed and get the credit they think he deserves .
I wonder if there is a way to keep him in-character and maintain his role as a sidekick (that’s what he is! There’s no shame in that) and goofiness, while also showcasing that he is just as important and capable as Kim is. Do you think this is possible?
I think it can be a problem with both the narrative and Kim's character.
It being a problem with the narrative is a meta POV; it being a problem with Kim's character is an in-universe POV. And only one of those POVs makes for good fanfiction.
I wouldn't have a problem with him being treated like a sidekick if it came with respect and recognition. But he rarely ever gets that. It's not that Ron's the sidekick, it's that other sidekicks still get treated as important to the success of a mission, but Ron doesn't.
(Other sidekicks also get gadgets and communicators, and Ron doesn't.)
I don't think it's too harsh to say that Ron deserved more from the narrative. He outgrew the "goofy sidekick" role pretty early, so it's kind of annoying that no one acknowledges that.
Yeah, I'm not typically into the "Ron comes back from Japan" stories either, but I can understand why people would want them; Ron deserves recognition, and if Kim isn't going to give it to him, he deserves to leave and/or find someone who will.
Ron is extremely relatable, more so than Kim, so people would like him to be treated better.
As for keeping him as a goofy sidekick while still getting the respect he deserves, I do think it's possible, in theory...
However, that would require Kim acknowledging Ron is very capable, and Kim doesn't seem interested in doing that. (She adamantly denies it in "The Ron Factor".)
She is known to get jealous if Ron is good at something that she struggles with, so I don't think she'd be eager to acknowledge that he's good at anything, especially if it's something she takes pride in. ("Bueno Nacho", "Two to Tutor")
So, while it could work in theory, with the way Kim is, I don't think it would actually work well in practice.
It does seem like Ron going out on his own would be the only way for him to get respect.
It's sad, but, that's the way it is.
I would love for Ron to get more respect, but it doesn't seem like Kim is willing to give it.
So, if Ron decides the only way to get respect is to go out on his own, I wouldn't blame him.
Obviously, there are a lot of things I hate about Lila as a character, if she can even be called that.
But, I want to talk about how others treated her.
"Chameleon" is Lila's second appearance in the series. In this one, Marinette wants to warn her friends that Lila is a liar and manipulative, and Adrien thinks they shouldn't. For some reason.
When he apologizes later, Marinette doesn't get mad. She reassures him that he did nothing wrong, even though he did.
Marinette tries several times throughout the series to convince people, mostly Alya, that Lila is lying, but Alya chalks it up to jealousy about Lila having a crush on Adrien.
When Lila's lies are revealed, Alya apologizes and berates herself for being gullible. Marinette reassures her by claiming lying is it's own superpower.
No, lying is not a superpower. Anyone can do it.
Lila's lies aren't even convincing if you think about them for a few seconds.
Lila claimed to know Prince Ali. Too bad they don't have a classmate who also knows Prince Ali and gets along with him really well. Too bad she wouldn't be able to write him a letter or call to confirm he knows Lila. (Rose)
She claimed Jagged Stone wrote a song about her and that she saved a kitten. Too bad they don't have multiple classmates who's mom worked with Jagged Stone and can confirm he hasn't had a cat in decades. Or at least know all of his songs well enough to realize none of them are about Lila. (Luka and Juleka)
She claimed Ladybug saved her life and that they're best friends. Too bad the journalist of the group didn't even think about that before posting it. Or decided to confirm with Ladybug first. (Alya)
She claimed she once saw a guy in India get his eye gouged out by a napkin. Too bad no one's smart enough to point out how that's impossible. (Max)
She claimed to get injured from Marinette pushing her down the stairs. Too bad no one took her to a doctor to get the injury treated.
Lying isn't a superpower. Most of Lila's lies come apart if you think about them.
Heck, Luka and Juleka get to hang out with Jagged later in the series, so the fact that they never found out Lila was lying is ridiculous.
The real superpower is how dumb everyone acts around Lila. Not one person is able to see through Lila's lies, even when they're obvious.
And if you have to dumb down your cast for the villain to succeed, they're not a good villain.
Worst of all, no one is being held accountable for it.
The message here is that you're supposed to just forgive people for blindly following a liar over you.
No, scratch that, you're supposed to just forgive people for accusing you of being a jealous liar when you try to warn them.
You certainly shouldn't point out how they blindly trusted her when they could've easily disproven her lies.
You shouldn't tell them how horrible and alone you've felt because everyone chose to believe the liar over you.
And it is a choice.
Lila states in "Chameleon" that no one thinks she's lying because they like what she has to say. That they don't want her to be lying.
Maybe not a conscious choice at first, but when Alya chooses to say Marinette's lying about Lila because of jealousy instead of believing her best friend, it became a conscious choice.
When your friends apologize and beg forgiveness for something they've done wrong, you're supposed to smile and assure them they did nothing wrong.
Your feelings here don't matter.
It's not their fault.
Lying is a superpower.
So, obviously, this is an episode I have a lot of thoughts on.
I will acknowledge that Kim does have some cool moves in this episode.
But, it also seems fair to acknowledge that, despite those cool moves, Kim didn't defeat the bad guy.
That was done by Ron, with a little help from Rufus.
It's also worth mentioning that, yes, Kim is dependent on Ron to succeed on missions, as shown in "Bueno Nacho".
And it's not fair to anyone, Ron especially, that, after Ron defeats the bad guy, he decides to give Kim all the credit.
Kim has impressive skills and definitely demonstrated them in this episode, but that doesn't mean Ron isn't a factor in her success.
And a role model would recognize that yes, Ron is important to her success, but that doesn't mean she's not amazing too.
She'd be supportive of Ron and happy for him, while still making Global Justice see that she's still amazing.
(And, no one said she wasn't amazing, they just said Ron was probably the key factor to her success.)
Other thoughts, in no particular order:
So, did Betty and Sheldon actually lose their eyes, or are they just being dramatic?
(I wouldn't put it past them.)
Is Sheldon's robotic hand prosthetic or some kind of glove? If prosthetic, how did he lose it?
Realistic sibling relationship: Betty and Sheldon immediately resort to childish squabbling when near each other, despite having spent the entire rest of the episode being ominous and brooding.
(The Cain Instinct is strong with these two.)
Honestly, that Chaos Theory thing might not be far off. And if Wade thinks there's some merit to it, I'm inclined to believe him.
I realize they said Ron was a "non-factor" at the end, but there is canon evidence that contradicts this.
It's probably that Ron is a factor, but not in any way that would actually show up on tests.
Thus, they assumed there was no "Ron Factor".
It has come to my attention that a lot of people are probably under the impression that I hate Kim since I criticize her behavior a lot.
This is not true.
I do believe that Kim is selfish and very flawed.
And I'm frustrated that her flaws are often overlooked or ignored or, in the rare instances where her harmful actions are actually acknowledged, downplayed, easily forgiven, and not changed.
But this is not because I hate Kim.
This is because I love Kim, or at least I used to, and wish she had gotten better character development.
Kim is the main character. Heck, Kim is the titular character. Kim is the focus of the show.
But Ron is the relatable character. Ron is the one who gets the most development. Ron got so much development that, in the fourth season, they actually had him take a back seat on some missions to a literal baby because they made Ron too good to keep being Kim's sidekick.
(Not sure if that was their thought process or intention, but it happened.)
Overall, Kim remains a static character. What little character development she gets does not compare to Ron. At all.
Now, obviously I love Ron, too.
But Kim also should have gotten character development. And every time the creators had a chance for it, they decided against it.
I would honestly love Kim a lot more if they had given her the same level of character development they gave Ron.
I mean, the fans deserve that, at least.