Thoughts On "Larry's Birthday"

I agree with all of this, and I'm adding I complaint I have:

Lila has no goals or motivation.

After her introductory episode, it was easy to defend her lying with Lila being new and struggling to make friends.

And, honestly, that would have been good enough.

But then, Lila appears again and, despite being caught in her lies, she doubles down and keeps lying, for seemingly no reason other than manipulating everyone around her.

Revenge against Ladybug might be a goal, but it seems a bit drastic for getting called out for lying. Especially when she was offered forgiveness by Ladybug and Adrien.

Lila's behavior then escalates from lying to allying with a super villain.

And she apparently has multiple families who know her under different identities, one of whom is a student at another school.

Again, no reason known for Lila to do this, and it has nothing to do with her revenge against Ladybug.

So, Lila manipulates everyone around her, for no known reason.

And since Lila's been around since the end of season 1, she should have a little more backstory by now.

Especially with the latest special, where Lila makes a wish that almost destroys the universe.

What did Lila wish for? What is her goal? Why is she doing this?

No one knows. Hopefully we'll get answers in season 6, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I guess my biggest complaint is that Lila is a plot device, not a character.

And that's just terrible writing.

Miraculous Ladybug Analysis: Why Lila Fails

So for those of you who aren’t new to my blog or fanfics, it should come as no surprise that I despise Lila Rossi from Miraculous Ladybug canon.

I despise her as a person. I despise her as a character. And I despise the very idea that she is in any way supposed to be a credible villain or that her choosing to be an antagonist is supposed to be anyone’s fault but her own. She annoys me in every possible way except for the reasons canon would probably have intended.

But ultimately, if I had to explain my specific issues with her and her character, it’d boil down to four main things:

One, Lila is a plot device.

From the moment she first appears in the story and well into any of her subsequent appearances, Lila’s purpose is to further a plot.

Not THE plot, mind you. Not the central story of the entire series about a supervillain attacking the city which has been dragged out for five seasons now or even the B plot of the love square that is so far removed from a slow burn by this point that the candle has long been extinguished from lack of oxygen.

No, it’s just A plot. And not even a good one. Outside of that specific plot of the day, Lila doesn’t really do anything, even when she arguably should be given the character that canon has presented her as.

And canon proves this is the case because Lila almost literally disappeared off the face of the earth with no explanation for nearly the entirety of season 2 until the finale when they suddenly need her again and say “oh yeah, by the way, she was just hiding out at home the whole time until Hawk Moth was ready to start this specific plan that is reliant on her to be there”. Sure, Gabriel has no way of knowing that Lila would even still be in Paris at that time, but that's the nature of a plot device in that it just works.

Lila appears. She manipulates and it works out. Then once her scheme is completed, she disappears into the ether again with little to no follow up or mention of her in the meantime.

Lila is a plot device and only exists as the plot demands. Which is even more problematic because of the next point.

Two, there is nothing that Lila does that couldn’t have been accomplished by an already established character.

Lila is supposed to be another rival over Adrien and another antagonist character for Marinette on both sides of the mask, which should be fine and even expected in a story.

The problem with that is that Marinette already HAS a rival and antagonist in Chloe, who seems to have everything needed to be a better antagonist. She has the power of wealth and nepotism to use against anyone she doesn’t like and to protect herself from consequences. Even better, she has a direct connection to the male lead that can at least give cause for her to appear to have a chance as a romantic rival as well as a reason for the female lead to not act against her if it would risk upsetting him. In addition, fans have been pegging her as a helper to Hawk Moth since season one, which would have been a potential route for her character—and what ended up happening ANYWAY given the events of Miracle Queen and season 4.

So why even have Lila then? There is nothing Lila brings to the table that is new or unique. She does nothing that couldn’t be accomplished by already existing characters who could fill whatever role she’s supposed to serve and they could do it WITHOUT the plot having to literally turn on its head to make thing work out.

She’s basically like Chloe—there’s no other way to put it. She is a sneakier and less obviously evil Chloe. They both are antagonistic towards the female lead while crushing on the male lead. They both do bad things and get away with it. They both act incredibly juvenile in their expectations and show no real understanding of either accountability or cause and effect. And they both agree to help the big bad just to get back at Ladybug for not letting them have something they feel entitled to with no real concern as to the fallout that would occur even if it should directly affect them.

The only difference is that Chloe at least has an in-universe reason for why she is never stopped. A frustrating reason, mind you, but still A reason.

Chloe gets away with things because she’s rich and her father is the guy running the city. Horrible? Yes. True to life? Arguably. But it’s something confirmed in canon and something we as the audience can see and understand the reason behind.

Lila doesn’t have that. What does she have then? Well, not much, actually.

Three, Lila‘s actions are not intelligent or reasonable.

This one is especially important because canon has been trying to paint it that Lila is some sort of mastermind and supposed to be a credible threat.

But as the writers don’t seem to understand “show, don’t tell”, Lila’s actions don’t really fit with that narrative. She either does things that a master manipulator wouldn’t do, or doesn’t take the obvious actions that one would.

A lot of her actions are poorly thought out:

Claiming to be the best friend of a superhero she know exists to someone she should know follows the exploits of and has had interviews with said hero, and just assumes that the claim will never be brought up if the two should meet again.

Claiming on a major news source to be the best friend of a superhero who is constantly under attack and may thus make Lila a potential target of anyone seeking to harm said hero.

Stealing what is clearly a very old possibly one of a kind book and going so far as to throw it away and just assume that the owner won’t notice or care that it’s missing.

NOT accepting Ladybug’s offer of friendship when the hero is clearly feeling guilty and would put Lila in a prime position to manipulate said hero out of that guilt and make at least one of her lies true.

And that’s just in Volpina. After that, Lila hid away at home for months on end just to sulk in her room over being caught. Which is really pathetic in and of itself, especially when there was no valid in character reason for her to do that instead of anything else, like maybe trying to do damage control.

Let’s remember that only two people knew Lila was lying—the hero she lied about and the crush the hero outted her in front of. Since Lila was clearly still in contact with the classmates during her self-imposed exile, she would have to have known that nobody else was aware of her lies, meaning those two people never told anyone about what she had been doing. Everyone else still believed her.

And of the two who knew, one apologized to LILA after Lila had selfishly lied about and insulted her while the other was still clearly trying to be on good terms with her even if he was disappointed in her for lying. Adrien actually offered to be her friend and only asked her to stop lying.

And Lila doesn’t use that to her advantage. A truly good manipulator can manipulate someone even if that person knows she’s a manipulator. She could have just accepted Adrien’s offer and it would have been a relatively small loss on her part in comparison to what she would have gained. She could have spun a sob story about why she lies and make herself look sympathetic to him so he would more willingly support her—and give her more of a chance to win him over because he would believe that they have a connection that way.

Instead, the master manipulator that Lila supposedly is chose to double down on her earlier lies and pout about how Ladybug is the liar even when it’s obvious that Ladybug wasn’t and even more obvious that Adrien wouldn’t believe her. Before stealing an akuma for herself and using it to frame ADRIEN for nicely asking her to stop lying to him instead of trying to frame Ladybug to him to give her lies more credence.

So each of Lila’s choices don’t make sense with the character that we are told Lila is supposed to be.

If I’m being charitable, I would say she just isn’t a master manipulator.

If I’m being blunt, I would say she’s stupid.

Now, it could be argued that she’s a teenager and doesn’t think things through, except that none of this is ever acknowledged as a mistake by either Lila herself or the narrative.

Lila keeps letting her emotions cloud her judgement. Which is interesting because Marinette is noted to have that as her main character flaw. Except for Marinette, this is actually portrayed as a flaw and something she has to correct and make up for while for Lila, it just somehow always works out in her favor.

Which leads to my next point…

Four, Lila is overly reliant on the plot to function as an antagonist.

If we're looking at things objectively, Lila isn’t smart and her plans aren’t that great. Whatever she schemes only seems to work because the plot requires them to rather than because of any real capability on Lila’s part. It becomes increasingly evident that Lila gets away with things because apparently plot demands that no one is allowed to so much as doubt what she says. They are forced to blindly believe her and follow whatever trail she wants them to, even when they arguably shouldn’t. So no one is able to figure out that she’s a liar aside from the female lead she’s a rival to and the big bad, and the latter of the two has reason to not do something about the giant red flag Lila presents.

This ultimately does less to show how clever Lila is and more to further emphasize the major problem of the series itself that too much of the show is reliant on nobody but Marinette doing anything. Lila’s character especially highlights that issue in that people who SHOULD have noticed Lila’s blatant lies or SHOULD have reason to respond in some way to her actions…don’t. And even in the relatively rare instance when they do, nothing comes of it.

We clearly see Damocles trying and failing to reach Lila’s mom about her unexplained extended absence in the Heroes Day finale, but this is never brought up again when she returns. Damocles himself seems to forget about it when he reappears to interact with Lila in the “Ladybug” episode. It also shows a giant disconnect between the Principal and the teachers in that we clearly see Bustier setting up a video call with Lila—so apparently Damocles isn’t aware that Bustier has direct contact with Lila and may know why she’s supposedly missing school and Bustier isn’t aware that Lila has been skipping school and that the administration hasn’t been able to make contact with her student’s family? Maybe Lila is “just that good”, but that speaks more of a level of ineptness in the school that we as the audience aren’t supposed to be seeing.

Most of Lila’s plots work out this way. She can outright manipulate people and have evidence of that manipulation be present for all to see, but nobody reacts. We don’t see Nino respond to the mass text of that picture Lila took of herself kissing Adrien after she told Nino she wasn’t interested in him. We don’t see Alya at any point connect the dots that if Marinette is Ladybug, then Lila would have to have been lying. They just seem to forget the clearly suspicious things they’ve witnessed and immediately jump to defend Lila as the plot requires. This makes no sense for these characters and it makes no sense for the plot.

As such, given the combination of these issues, I dislike Lila in Miraculous Ladybug not because she’s “evil”, but because she acts stupidly and is entirely reliant on plot armor. It’s even worse that the narrative is trying to TELL me that she is smart and an evil mastermind when it’s only SHOWING me otherwise. And the biggest problem is that for all her obvious objective failings, she doesn’t actually face any real loss because the narrative bends over backwards to ensure she somehow attains victory in any episode she appears.

As it stands, I would say that Lila’s only real ability is her apparent power to dumb down anyone she comes in contact with if the show didn’t already do that without her.

Would you say Kim was better in the last season? How much did she grew as a person?

Hmm...tough question. My answer may not be the most popular, but...

On the one hand, Kim's competitiveness seems to have died down, so I'll give her that.

On the other hand, I mentioned that it was a bit unfair of Kim to keep expecting Ron to pay for nice dates to expensive restaurants without coupons and not offer to pay for them herself, or how annoying it is that she not only had the job handed to her, but Monique literally begged her to take it. ("The Big Job")

And, while I can somewhat understand her jealousy of Yori, she shouldn't have let that interfere with a mission. Nor was she sympathetic towards Ron about being forced out of his room for a baby sister he didn't even know he was getting. ("Big Bother")

It wasn't cool of her to be hassling Monique to break an NDA when Kim herself likely already knew what the consequences would be for Monique if she did, nor was it cool to have Wade look over the contract for loopholes. ("Fashion Victim")

And she's still rude and judgmental about Larry's interests, which happen to be interests that Kim knows Ron shares. ("Larry's Birthday")

So, while Kim's competitiveness seems to have died down, her need to control everything is still an issue, and she's still unnecessarily judgmental about other peoples' harmless interests.

So I guess Kim improved a bit, but still has some issues to work on that aren't fully addressed.

Sorry if that's not the answer you were looking for.

Would a sequel series that acknowledges Kim’s flaws and works to fix them help you see her in a better light?

Ideally? Yes.

Honestly? I'm not 100% sure, but it would be appreciated.

The most important thing is that it's handled without people acting too out of character.

For example, if Ron tells Kim how much something hurts him and she immediately apologizes and corrects it, though it'd be nice, it's not very in-character.

They'd need to have more back and forth before Kim acknowledges that she's hurting him/that it's bad.

Not saying they have to break up, but it wouldn't be very in-character for Kim to immediately recognize her faults.

Kim's very stubborn. Not being mean, she just is.

It's a requirement for saving the world, but when it negatively impacts her personal life, it's a problem.

Where do you think the belief that Ron isn’t good enough for Kim comes from? Do you agree with that claim?

I definitely disagree with that claim. As for where it came from...

I'm not sure.

I'm sure the fact that the narrative itself treats Ron like a loser has played a huge part in this.

Kim is treated like an all-star crimefighter who can do anything, and Ron is treated like her inept, bumbling sidekick.

So, obviously, Kim deserves a cooler boyfriend, right?

(That's sarcasm, for people who have trouble telling tone over text.)

Except, it's been shown that Ron is actually very capable when necessary, even if the narrative and the characters won't acknowledge it.

Not to mention, healthy relationships are built on more than just similar skill levels.

Healthy relationships are built on things like support, communication, and friendship. Those are all things Ron offers Kim constantly.

(I have made several posts about how Kim doesn't offer those things to Ron, so I'm not going to get into it here.)

Ultimately, Ron is too good for Kim, and he deserves someone who at least appreciates the effort he puts into the relationship, even if they can't quite match it.

So, I definitely disagree with that claim, even if I'm not sure where it came from.

(I have a fanfic series on AO3 that addresses a lot of my issues with Kim, but Kim and Ron break up in the first installment. If that's not your thing, I'm going to advise against it.)

Alright, addressing several points:

First, the examples @kim-and-ron gave of Ron keeping things to himself are all things that happened after the first episode. They're fairly recent problems, so I don't blame Ron for trying to solve those by himself.

And he didn't keep his self image issues a secret in "Ron the Man", nor did he keep his fears about their future a secret either in "Graduation". So those don't count as examples to your point.

Now, to my point: those were recent problems, but in the past Ron has told Kim about every other problem he's had; Wannaweep, gnomes, robotic horses, etc. Before the first episode, he had never kept his issues a secret from Kim.

@gothicthundra I do agree that it's totally reasonable to still be learning things about each other, and I will concede my point about Shaun as his reign of terror probably began fairly recently.

But if you can agree that the frequency of game nights meant Ron should have known about them, then surely you can agree that the bullying, which was more frequent, is something Kim should have known about?

And, these aren't just people who are mean to Ron, these are people who were attacking him, threatening him, and stealing his money. Since kindergarten.

Are we supposed to believe that at five years old, Ron decided to handle people beating him up and stealing his money on his own?

Are we really going to believe that, in the entire time it's going on, he never had an injury from them, or Kim never wondered were Ron's money has gone?

Or are we supposed to believe that Ron lied about those things, when he's canonically a terrible liar and had no reason to lie in the first place?

He's been getting robbed and attacked since kindergarten, and we're really supposed to believe it never came up before?

As for how I'd fix that scene in "Monkey Fist Strikes", here:

Ron: "I know you and Larry don't have a lot in common, but is game night with him and your Aunt June really so bad?"

Kim: "It's not the game, it's that I'm forced to listen to him talk about his conventions or his "LARPs", and that I've been forced once a month since I was three years old. Last month I learned more than I ever wanted to about that Fortress game."

And there, we have an exposition that explains things to the audience without Ron being ignorant of something that should've come up by now.

And, even though no one's asking, I have a proposal for fixing the issue of Kim not knowing Ron was getting bullied in "Mind Games".

Firstly, we'd have to have the bullying start recently, like Middle School.

Secondly:

Kim: "When you told me you were getting bullied, I thought you were just getting made fun of. I didn't realize it was this bad, and my advice definitely wouldn't have helped. I'm sorry I didn't help earlier."

Ron: "Yeah, I didn't know how to say it, and I figured just avoiding them would work fine. But, thanks."

Kim: "That's what friends are for. You can always come to me if you need help. And I'll try to listen better in the future."

Ron: "Thanks, KP. And hey, it's the same for me, you know?"

Kim: "I know, you'll always be there for me."

Rufus: *chirps*

Ron: "And Rufus!"

Kim: "And Rufus."

And, one final point:

I can kind of see the point about Ron keeping some of his problems to himself, but it seems strange that he never told Kim about his interest in baking. That's not a problem that needs solving, it's a new interest that he was eager to try and share, so why wouldn't he share it with Kim?

Honestly, I am grateful to everyone who's commented on this. I do enjoy hearing everyone's points, even if I don't agree with them.

Kim and Ron's dynamic seems...off. They don't seem like they've been best friends for ten years, it'd make more sense if they had only recently become friends, like in middle school.

And I'm not just saying that because Kim can be mean and judgmental at times, especially towards Ron. I'm saying that because, despite being best friends for 10+ years and living next door to each other, they don't seem to know things about each other that actual long-term best friends would.

"Monkey Fist Strikes" - Ron is aware that Kim dislikes her cousin Larry, but never knew about the monthly family game nights that have been going on since she was three.

"Mind Games" - Kim had no idea that Ron's been getting bullied since kindergarten. This especially makes no sense as this is something Ron would've asked Kim for help with. It definitely should have come up at some point.

"Two to Tutor" - Kim is genuinely surprised that Ron is good at baking, even though he's been doing it since he was eight.

"Hidden Talent" - Ron is unaware that Kim can sing, or that she has trouble hitting the high notes. Bonnie was able to obtain a video of this event, but somehow Ron was still unaware of it before now.

"Showdown at The Crooked D" - Ron is unaware that Kim has an uncle and a cousin, even though Kim actually seemed excited to see Joss.

"Bad Boy" - Kim is completely unaware of the existence of Ron's evil cousin Shaun, despite this being another thing that would make sense for Ron to ask Kim's help with.

I understand that they need a way to explain stuff to the audience, but can you imagine being someone's best friend for ten years, living next door to them, and not knowing about their family and interests?

Would they really be your best friend if you two knew so little about each other?

It has come to my attention that a lot of people are probably under the impression that I hate Kim since I criticize her behavior a lot.

This is not true.

I do believe that Kim is selfish and very flawed.

And I'm frustrated that her flaws are often overlooked or ignored or, in the rare instances where her harmful actions are actually acknowledged, downplayed, easily forgiven, and not changed.

But this is not because I hate Kim.

This is because I love Kim, or at least I used to, and wish she had gotten better character development.

Kim is the main character. Heck, Kim is the titular character. Kim is the focus of the show.

But Ron is the relatable character. Ron is the one who gets the most development. Ron got so much development that, in the fourth season, they actually had him take a back seat on some missions to a literal baby because they made Ron too good to keep being Kim's sidekick.

(Not sure if that was their thought process or intention, but it happened.)

Overall, Kim remains a static character. What little character development she gets does not compare to Ron. At all.

Now, obviously I love Ron, too.

But Kim also should have gotten character development. And every time the creators had a chance for it, they decided against it.

I would honestly love Kim a lot more if they had given her the same level of character development they gave Ron.

I mean, the fans deserve that, at least.

I loved all three of the shows you mentioned. Though in Winx Club’s case I just love the earlier seasons they went off the rails.

I'm not sure "off the rails" is the term I'd use, but it did seem like some of the plots were pretty crazy towards the end.

Then again, it is a world of magic, so I guess crazy can be expected.

Still feels like a bit much at times though.

And, as I stated, I know Winx Club didn't handle everything perfectly all the time, but it still did "girl power" way better than Kim Possible did.

Ron Deserved Better

Ron deserved better, from a narrative standpoint. Ron was capable of being more than just Kim's sidekick, and it would've been great to have that emphasized more.

In "Tick-Tick-Tick" Ron is the one who comes up with the idea of using hot sauce to short out the tick and a straw to remove it.

In "Bueno Nacho" Ron figures out how to work the laser after messing around with it for less than a minute.

In "Attack of The Killer Bebes" Ron is the one who made the connection that Kim's dad was the next target, came up with the plan to protect him and find out who was behind it all, and made an extremely convincing disguise in less than a day.

(I know Kim wasn't aware of any of this because she wasn't around, but Kim walking off the mission because she was mad isn't a good look for a hero. However, that's not the point of this post.)

In "Sink or Swim" Ron displays stealth, cunning, quick-thinking, improvisation, resourcefulness, and bravery. Even Kim acknowledges this, but only this one time.

In "Animal Attraction" Ron figures out that getting Rufus to eat corn dogs would make him heavy enough to press the button to release them. Simple? Yes. Effective? Also, yes. And most importantly, a plan that Kim had failed to come up with on her own.

In "Royal Pain" Ron manages to use a mini golf prop to stop a bad guy, aimed in such a way that Prince Wally, who was being held in the bad guy's grip at the time, wasn't harmed.

In "The Twin Factor" Ron manages to not just evade Kim and Shego, but trick Shego into undoing his bindings and lasts against them long enough for Jim and Tim to finish their silicon-phase disruptor.

In "Job Unfair" Ron used sneezing powder on Drakken, which managed to take both Drakken and Shego out of the fight. Simple, effective, and clever.

In "Naked Genius" Ron's mangler was actually a fairly decent weapon, especially considering he was just throwing random things together. And his idea to use it against all the armor was brilliant.

In "The Fearless Ferret" Ron actually makes a decent hero at the end, despite the fact that his mentor was a delusional man.

In "Exchange" Ron manages to kick a tree, that then splits cleanly and falls over. That is not a normal amount of strength. He also manages to make his clothes disappear during Bo practice, which, though embarrassing, is also a bit of an impressive feat.

In "Hidden Talent" it's stated that Ron proved quantity was better than quality, but Ron was actually good at half of the acts he performed; tap dancing, ventriloquism, and water glasses.

In "Return to Wannaweep" Ron figures out how to use his new beaver-like mutation and his surroundings to defeat Gil, and figures it pretty quickly.

In "Partners" Ron and Monique manage to build a donut-launching system relatively quickly, and it proves extremely useful in distracting a mutant dinosaur.

In "Oh Boyz" Ron manages to help the Oh Boyz escape by having them use their dance moves to throw off the motion-detecting lasers. He also taught himself their dance moves just by watching them.

In "Triple S" Ron actually did a decent job of staying on the tray and holding the umbrella. I'm not surprised people thought it was a new sport; an average person doing that on accident wouldn't have been able to stay on it at all.

In "Bad Boy" Ron builds dangerous and powerful devices, and has the foresight to track the Kimmunicator's frequency. And the only thing he switched with Drakken was morality, not intelligence. Thus, it's reasonable to assume that Ron is extremely intelligent, he's just not trying.

In "Overdue" Ron goes on several missions alone to retrieve a library book.

In "Stop Team Go" even Shego acknowledges that Ron turning evil again is very bad. And he sends a bunch of Wegos flying through the air immediately afterwards.

And, of course, Ron's powers come into full bloom in "Graduation".

TLDR: Ron was capable of being more than a sidekick, a solo hero in his own right, and it would've been nice if the narrative hadn't treated him as Kim's inept and clumsy sidekick, even when he's being amazing.

Bonus: In defense of his clumsiness, and less than stellar grades, Ron mentions in "The Fearless Ferret" that he has "a slight stigmatism" but that his doctor says he shouldn't need corrective lenses. As someone who needed glasses at Ron's age, and someone who had astigmatism, I can say this; Ron's astigmatism may not be bad enough that he is legally classified as visually impaired, but even with slight astigmatism, it can still make things blurrier than they should be and mess up his ability to see detail, read, and screw with his depth perception.

In other words, Ron isn't horribly clumsy or stupid, he just can't see.

#no but legit allll of this because it makes it really hard to side with Alya in 'Revealator' despite her being in the right#because Alya is the LAST person who has the right to spout off any tirade about The Truth and giving people The Right to Choose#She wants to berate Ladybug for her choice in Season 5 when SHE. WASN'T. THERE.#and she wasn't there because she didn't have the Fox Miraculous#and she didn't have the Fox Miraculous because she gave it up despite having it 'permanently' due because she told Nino who outed her#what it comes down too is that both Nino AND Alya can't really be trusted to keep secrets#not between each other for sure (see Alya telling Nino about MARINETTE'S crush despite being EXPLICTLY told not to)#and NINO can't keep a secret PERIOD#so like Boo hoo Alya doesn't like to lie but she does NOT protect people's autonomy to 'choose' what to do with the truth

Just gotta say, in addition to everything in the post, those tags bring up an excellent point.

Alya thinks Marinette should tell Adrien that his dad was Hawkmoth because he has a right to know.

And, I would agree, to a point.

But, there is still a villain out there with the power to turn people into villains, and Adrien is still in a fragile state after having lost both of his parents. The revelation that Gabriel was Hawkmoth would destroy him.

And, if it got out to anyone else, the media could latch onto that. He's having a hard enough time avoiding the paparazzi, they'd certainly never leave him alone about a story like that.

Marinette wants to tell Adrien at some point. She just wants to make sure it's done in the right way to hurt him less.

I fear that the show is going to frame Marinette as wrong for keeping that secret, but we'll wait and see.

And, yeah, Alya doesn't respect people's privacy. Alya shouldn't be telling Nino about Marinette's crush on Adrien, even if he is her boyfriend.

At least with Nino he seems kinda clueless, like he doesn't actually know what's wrong. Alya is being deliberately told not to tell anyone and doing it anyways.

What are your thoughts on Alyno's relationship, and do you think the good aspects about them outweight the toxic ones? I mean they're definitely at least less toxic than current canon Lovesquare, but that bar is pretty much subterranean. 😬

(Also sorry if you've already been asked this, I found your blog relatively recently and I love reading through your thoughts and critiques! It's always interesting reading through your takes <3)

I'm so glad that you like the blog and, no, I don't think I've been asked this so let's talk about it!

DJWifi or Alyno is a fine couple most of the time. There are really only two major flaws in how they're written and one minor flaw that gets elevated to a major flaw because of the other flaws. I think it's pretty easy to take them and make them into a great couple, but canon has squandered that potential making them into a couple that is just kind of there because everyone needs to be paired off to earn a happy ending, I guess. (This show is incredibly amatonormative.)

Let's go through all of those items one by one.

Flaw One: How They Got Together

Alya and Nino get together in Animan, the episode that starts with Nino having a crush on Marinette. Of course, when Nino is prompted to tell Marinette about this crush, he chokes and says it's on Alya instead:

Marinette: Uhh... Can't wait to hear... about this lucky girl! Nino: Oh, yeah... Adrien:(from the earpiece) Tell her it's you! Nino: It's youuu...uur best friend Alya! Adrien, Alya and Marinette: What?! Marinette: Alya? Awesome! Alya: No! No! It's not awesome! Marinette: I can fix up a date for you guys! Alya: Say what?! Seriously?! (calls Nino from the earpiece) You didn't even ask me first! (calls Marinette back from the earpiece) Uh-uh! Nino's like... a brother to me! Bleugh! No! End of discussion!

This leads Marinette to lock Alya in a cage with Nino in spite of the fact that Alya is clearly not interested in Nino:

Ladybug:(takes Nino and Alya to the empty gorilla habitat and locks the cage) Stay put and you'll be safe. (then leaves) Nino:(he looks at Alya) Uhh... Hey, what's up? (Alya lets out a disgusted groan.)

This questionable series of events somehow leads Alya and Nino to get together off screen:

Alya: Ladybug locked us up together in the same cage all afternoon. Nino: It turns out we have tons in common. You know, Marinette, the girl I've got a crush on? Marinette: Oh, yeah! Nino: Actually, it was you. Marinette: Huh? Nino: Or that's what I thought. But after chilling with Alya that whole time... Alya:(interrupts) Yeah, well...we don't have to give her all the deets, do we? Nino: Oh, yeah, my bad.

What an incredibly lackluster romance! Alya and Nino deserve better than this! I actually don't mind Nino having a crush on Marinette, but if you want to go that route, then there needs to be a bigger gap between him crushing on Marinette and Alya. As is, it makes Alya feel like a consolation prize which is not cool.

I'm also not wild about Alya's change of heart. How the heck did she go from "he's like a brother" to "I want to date him" in the course of an hour? If you're going to give us such a dramatic change of heart, then you need to actually show the change happening. At the very least, explain why! They might not need to give Marinette the details, but they do need to give them to the audience!

Alya and Nino generally feel like a fine couple after this episode, so if you missed Animan then you'd have no reason to question their love, but this being the start of their relationship really undermines the romance for me. It's way too lackluster for one of the show's main couples!

Flaw Two: Nino's Blabbermouth

Season five was the season of character assassination and the episode Illusion was dedicated to ruining Nino, giving us many questionable moments including this scene where Nino outs his and Alya's secret identities in a crowded cafeteria:

Nino: What's up is Ladybug and Cat Noir don't have us to help them anymore. Alya: (nervously) Um, um— uh— what do you mean, "us"? Nino: Well, us, you Rena Rouge, me Carapace! (Alya kicks his leg underneath the table) Ouch! What's the big deal? We can tell Marinette and Adrien we used to be superheroes. (The camera pans to a shocked Marinette.) Nino: It's not like we have any Miraculous that Monarch could steal from us. The only ones who need to protect their secret identities are Ladybug and Cat Noir, not us. And anyway, I already told Adrien about Carapace. (Adrien laughs red-handed.) Marinette: Adrien knew? (furiously) Alya, did you know that he knew? Alya: What, no, I swear I didn't know at all! (kicks Nino's leg for the second time) Nino: Ow! Come on! He's my best bud, I can tell him stuff! You and Marinette tell each other stuff, don't you?

Yes, this reveal was only to Marinette and Adrien, but holy shit a crowded cafeteria is not the place to be talking about this kind of thing! Nino, what are you doing? We even see Lila overhear a later part of the conversation, making it clear that wasn't one of those confusing moments where the show used a seemingly public place for a confrontation or reveal, but later context makes it clear that it should be read as a private moment.*

Because the show let there be consequences for Nino using this location AND let the group use the extremely private boiler room later on, Nino comes across terribly! He is so gods damn lucky that Lila only overheard the part about Gabriel (as far as we know.) This scene is a pretty massive betrayal of Alya's trust and Nino never even apologizes for it. It makes him come across as a bad friend, a bad hero, and a bad boyfriend.

I would never include a moment like this unless it was part of a character arc where Nino learned the error of his way or part of a plotline where Alyno breaks up. Because the show never gave this moment proper consequences or payoff, it just makes Nino look like a terrible hero for no good reason and it makes Alya's choice to stay with him pretty questionable. Can she really trust him when he's been shown to treat her most precious secrets with such casual disregard?

*Note: this really only happened in the early seasons when the show didn't have more private locations animated, Volpina and Miracle Queen being prime examples. Both episodes contain a scene that seems extremely public, but later episodes make it clear that the events were only known to the characters who were present in the scene.

Flaw Three: Why Do They Even Like Each Other?

This is the minor issue I mentioned at the start. I don't think side couples need to be deeply developed and sometimes crushes just happen, but when you introduce issues like how the couple got together and Nino being a questionable partner for a superhero, then you do start to wonder why Alya is sticking with this guy? What does she see in him? Why should we want them to stay together outside of amatonormativity?

I don't have a good answer for those questions and it really undermines them as couple. If you're going to do things like mutual identity reveals and episodes centered on their relationship, then you do need to give their relationship some substance because you're giving it too much narrative weight for something so underdeveloped. That's extra true when you're denying the lead couple their own identity reveal! Alyno being fully revealed while also full time heroes is a massive insult to the love square from a narrative perspective and just further cheapens the square's eventual identity reveal.

Fixing Alyno

In spite of all these issues, I do actually like Alyno and tend to put them together in my own stuff. They have the potential to be a fantastic couple. I even use their relationship to help guide how I write Nino because he has so little substance in canon!

For those who don't want to read the massive post I just linked, my main inspiration for Alyno is the fact that canon made Nino a film buff. That's a fantastic match for a nascent vlogger! I love to include scenes of him teaching her how to frame certain types of shots or him helping her learn how to edit footage into an engaging story. It's such an obvious way to let them bond and I'm so disappointed that canon never went there. I actually make the Ladyblog the reason they got together by having Nino help with the filming and by having him run along after Alya in the early story because he's trying to keep her safe. Dude needs to earn his miraculous somehow!

Final Thoughts

I'm pretty neutral on canon Alyno because canon has given them so little substance while also introducing some pretty major flaws, but I like their potential and happily ship them in the realms of fanon. One of the many cases where it's less a love of canon and more a love of the potential I see in canon. Much like the love square, I'd be totally fine with canon Alyno breaking up forever, but I like to give them a happily ever after together in my own stuff.

Possible AUs

While I love the idea of Ron deciding to end things with Kim after "Crush", there are definitely other times when Ron could've ended his friendship with Kim, and if you're interested in that trope in fanfiction, I think you might find this list helpful.

After being forced into a haircut in "The New Ron", Ron decides Kim's controlling behavior is too much for him. He ends his friendship with Kim and calls her out for her behavior.

After using mind control on her brothers at the end of "The Twin Factor", Kim is grounded for a long time, leaving Ron to handle missions alone. This would cause Ron to realize his own skills, and put a strain on his relationship with Kim as she can't stand to watch him succeed on missions without her. Kim also finds herself with fewer babysitting jobs once word of her using mind control on her brothers gets around.

Kim finds herself getting fewer missions after word of her negligence and reckless endangerment in "October 31st" gets out. She also finds herself banned from Monique's house since she destroyed the garage door.

Upset over GJ thinking Ron is the secret to her success in "The Ron Factor", Kim tries the solo hero thing, and fails. Unfortunately, her parting had left Ron hurt and upset, and he's not interested in coming back to Kim.

After "Adventures in Rufus-Sitting", Rufus manages to communicate to Ron what happened while he was away, and Ron gets angry that Kim not only neglected and endangered Rufus, but lied to him about it. Ron ends things with Kim as he doesn't know how he can keep being friends with someone who cares so little about Rufus.

Ron comes back from his trip in "Exchange" with new skills, new confidence, and an unwillingness to put up with Kim's controlling behavior. So he takes a break from Kim when she gets to be too much for him.

After constantly being ignored about Gil in "Return to Wannaweep", Ron decides to end things with Kim and look for someone more supportive. Kim finds herself booted from the squad after they learn about how she intentionally sabotaged her own teammate to succeed.

Team Impossible from "Team Impossible" uses legal actions to keep Kim out of the save the world business, at least until she's 18, due to the reasons mentioned in my post about them. They offer to train Kim and Ron in how to be better heroes, but Ron is the only one who accepts.

Feeling abandoned in "So The Drama", Ron decides to confront Drakken alone. He succeeds, and it starts a new chain of events where Ron realizes how little Kim cares for him and decides he deserves better.

There might be episodes in Season 4 that could have Ron end things with Kim, but I feel like at that point it would take a lot, and Kim didn't do anything truly heinous to Ron so he wouldn't.

If anyone can think of any other episode where they think it would make sense for Ron to end things with Kim, please feel free to comment!