Teen Titans

So The Drama: A Bit of A Mess (Redux)

Regardless of my feelings on Kim/Ron, I think the show could've done a better job of portraying them as having feelings for each other.

In "Grudge Match" Kim mocks and insults Ron for even suggesting that people might think they date. This does not indicate that she's secretly crushing on him.

In "Emotion Sickness" Ron is uncomfortable with the idea of dating Kim. This does not indicate that he's secretly crushing on her.

In "Bad Boy" Kim suggests Ron take a date to Rueben's wedding, but gets uncomfortable when he asks her to go. They both agree that it's not a "date-date".

(I will give them props, Kim and Ron's conversation about the main characters of Agony County getting together was a nice lampshade.)

I will admit that Kim was jealous of Yori in "Gorilla Fist", and her conversation with Ron about Yori crushing on him could be a nice parallel to Kim's situation.

However, Kim was also jealous of Felix in "Steal Wheels", so it's not like she has to consider someone to be romantic rival to be jealous of them.

Ron is never shown to have issues with Kim dating, even attempting to help Kim with Josh.

And, though she doesn't seem to think highly of Ron, she doesn't have a problem with Ron dating.

Before "So The Drama" there wasn't a lot to indicate that they were attracted to each other.

Actually, there was more to indicate that they only see each other as friends than that they were secretly attracted to each other.

In "So The Drama" we get a lot of Ron pining over Kim, but only one line near the beginning that might indicate Kim is also pining over Ron.

And then, there's Eric.

Eric was perfect for Kim, and she begins to ignore Ron because of him.

This prompts Ron to realize his feelings for Kim, but he doesn't act on them until after Eric is revealed to be part of Drakken's plan.

Which is another problem; Eric was part of Drakken's plan.

Aside from one line at the beginning, there wasn't much to indicate that Kim was crushing on Ron. So having her date him after it's revealed that Eric was part of Drakken's plan makes it seem like Ron's the rebound.

Honestly, having two people end up together because the alternate love interest was no longer an option is kind of lazy writing.

(Granted, they hadn't been expecting the show to continue after this, so I'm not too surprised.)

Still, Kim ended up with Ron not because he was the better option but because he was the only option.

And that's just unfair to both of them.

About the Show

I fee like, with all my criticisms, it's about time I talk about what I do like about the show.

Firstly, I love Ron. He's very relatable - not instantly good at everything, but tries. He's always got Kim's back. He's not afraid to be himself, most of the time. And the way he treats Rufus like his best friend is sweet. His willingness to help his enemies is also very sweet.

Fun Fact: Rufus was put in the show because the execs requested an animal sidekick. So, they chose one that you couldn't just go out and buy, and it let them make people say "naked" a lot.

Secondly, I love the villains. Most shows of the time had villains where all their motivation is the same - money, power, etc. It can be kind of boring.

But that didn't happen in Kim Possible. Their villains were interesting, and a nice break from the usual mold.

Drakken? Recognition and revenge.

Shego? No one really knows. Hatred of her brothers is a good guess, though.

Senor Senior, Senior? Bored during retirement.

Senor Senior, Junior? Wants to be a pop star.

Duff Killigan? Revenge for being banned from every golf course in the world.

Motor Ed? Just wants to build the raddest vehicles ever.

Adrena Lynn? Revenge for being exposed as a fraud.

The Fashionistas? Fashion's too expensive.

DNAmy? Just wants real cuddle buddies.

Even the ones who did want money and/or power had interesting methods of going about it.

Monkey Fist? I am going to master Monkey Kung Fu.

Frugal Lucre? I am going to hold the internet hostage unless everyone in the world pays me $1. (This would work on me. I'd be giving him a dollar.)

Mathter? Turn someone into a guy who destroys everything he touches. (Actually, I'm not 100% sure what his goal was. Power, probably, but then what?)

The villains were genuinely entertaining. There's no other show where you're going to be fighting an angry Scotsman who's launching exploding golf balls at you, or a British master of Monkey Kung Fu.

Lastly, I like that, when Kim and Ron made new friends, they didn't immediately become new teammates. They might help out on a mission that's in their area of expertise, but they're not all joining the team right away, if ever. It's nice that Kim and Ron were able to have friends to just do normal stuff with.

Honestly, there is a lot to like about the show. There is a lot that I like about the show. But those are the three big ones I felt like mentioning.

If I listed everything I love about the show, this post would be too long to read.

As a follow up to you post about mentors, just to make things fair, what are examples of Tikki being a bad mentor to Marinette?

Post in question for context.

Tikki often acts as the voice of the author. She's there to explain why Marinette is in the wrong. Since Miraculous has some wacky morals, that means we get a mix of good advice and wacky nonsense advice.

Two examples of bad advice that come to mind are Gamer and Strikeback. Gamer is the episode where Marinette stumbles upon an Ultimate Mecha Strike tournament, realizes that Adrien is taking part, and decides to compete so they can be on a team together. Marinette wins a spot through her own hard won skills and then this happens:

Tikki: All you wanted to do is spend time with Adrien, there are other ways to do that! Marinette: What are you getting at? Tikki: You know how much Max wanted to be in that tournament. Kim said he'd been training for it all year. Marinette: You're right. All I could think about was Adrien. 

This is how tournaments work, right? They're not tests of skill, but tests of who put in the most work or who wants to compete the most! That's why we had that scene with Marinette writing out her training schedule and motivations for evaluation, but she lied and that was wrong and...

Okay, I was the one lying here. There was no written evaluation because that's not how tournaments work. All anyone cares about is your skills. They don't care if you're doing this for personal glory or to get closer to a boy or whatever Adrien's motivation was because - notably - his motivation didn't matter in this episode about needing pure motives to be allowed to do things.

What if he didn't care about the competition and only did it to get closer to his classmates? That's not even a random guess. It's a valid read because Adrien ultimately gives his spot to Max while claiming that Max is the better player even though Adrien very clearly beat Max at the start of the episode. Ignoring that weird nonsense dialogue, why was it fine for Adrien to compete when he didn't care but wrong for Marinette to do the same? And Max wanting to compete to show off his skills is also a totally selfish motivation, so why does it matter that he wanted it more? Everything about this episode was nonsense and uncomfortably sexist. If Max wants to compete, then he needs to get better at the game. That's how competitions work.

Strikeback is the second part of the season four final and it starts with Marinette mourning the fact that "Adrien" has left Paris, leading to this:

Marinette: (crestfallen) It's all over, Tikki. Tikki: He'll be back, Marinette. He's just going on a voyage!

Which would be lovely advice if Adrien was a normal boy, but he's Chat Noir and Tikki knows that. She should be freaking out and trying to find a way to get him back to Paris, but then Tikki would have to support Marinette's actions and we can't have that, so instead Tikki gives this nonsense advice because she has to be against whatever "wrong" thing Marinette is doing today.

I could come up with a few more examples, but I think those two paint a pretty good picture of issue one re Tikki. However, when it comes to Tikki, my main issue with her is less a wealth of bad advice - unlike Plagg*, I think she's right more often than not - and more a lack of support. It feels like she's just here to judge Marinette and point out when she's doing something wrong, but a good mentor should be so much more than that.

Kuro Neko is a great example of this. When Chat Noir quits, Tikki just sits back and does nothing while her young charge is freaking out. She doesn't even try to defend Marinette when Plagg is going off about Chat Noir's "ill treatment". For all Plagg's faults in that episode, at least he's doing something about the situation. Meanwhile Tikki literally has two lines in the entire episode! A similar thing happens in Kwami's Choice where Plagg is the one driving them to act while Tikki just wrings her hands in despair.

Tikki: (sighs heavily) What can we do? Plagg: We must free them of that impossible choice. We must… free them of us.

These are not the actions of a mentor. Mentors aren't supposed to just offer judgement about things that their mentee has already done or is considering doing. They're supposed to be a source of support and guidance in hard times, but we never really see Tikki stepping in to give Marinette that kind of advice. If memory serves, she never offers solutions or acts as a sounding board. That role is mainly filled by Alya and I love Alya! It's good for Marinette to have support from a friend, but Alya is also a teenager while Tikki is an ancient being who has seen many Ladybugs go through the kind of struggles that Marinette is going through. I expect her to use that knowledge to help her charge, but she never does. This exchange from Passion perfectly highlights this problem:

Tikki: Don't worry, Plagg... my holder has decided to run away from her real feelings to pursue an impossible love with Cat Noir instead. Plagg: Uh, just to be sure, sugarcube, you do know that Cat Noir and my holder are one and the same person, right? Tikki: I do, but my holder doesn't. Plagg: If she declares her love to Cat Noir, something tells me she'll find out soon enough. Tikki: You have nothing to fear. When my holder is in love, she never gets anywhere. She'll just knit hats and make very complicated plans that will never come to fruition. Plagg: Hmm... ah, then everything's fine.

Tikki, I love you, but by the gods! With a mentor like you, Marinette doesn't need enemies to be miserable! Do you care about her at all??? What kind of mentor delights at their mentee's suffering? Not a good one, that's for sure.

*Quick note: I think that Plagg and Tikki are probably neck and neck for who has given the most bad advice, Plagg just feels like the bigger problem because we don't see him as much as we see Tikki. Since she's tied to the main character, Tikki gives advice in almost every episode and most episodes have decent morals.

Adrien's need for good advice can also feel more glaring because he's so isolated and passive. That makes Plagg's lack of good advice feel more harmful, but Marinette is just as isolated from real advice. Her mentor figures - Su Han, Fu, and Tikki - mostly give orders and judgement instead of support and guidance. It's just harder to spot that fact because Marinette is actively trying to do the right thing, meaning that she's more likely to make mistakes, and it's easy to see why she comes across as a lot less pathetic and a lot easier to judge.

Yeah, Kim feels unrelatable. Her life is too perfect, she's too naturally talented at everything, her parents are too permissive, etc. Kim's life is not relatable. At all. Sure, she's a great fantasy, but when you're older, you want relatability more than fantastically perfect.

At some point, it just stops being fun to watch someone who's life is unattainably perfect.

I actually left out the pre-school Halloween costume because, due to his age at the time, I wasn't sure if that would count as a disregard for gender norms.

Also, in the episode "Grudge Match" his rules were that Zita was out of his league and he shouldn't even try asking her out because of it. Less to do with gender norms and stereotypes, and more to do with his perception of himself.

(He's also more surprised that Vivian's boyfriend isn't as good looking as her and that he's a robot than he is that she's a scientist.)

Kim did call his rules ridiculous, but the early part of the episode makes it clear that, despite this, Kim actually does believe Ron doesn't stand a chance with Zita.

Ron: What kind of chance do I have a girl like that anyway? Kim: Honest opinion or best-friend fudge? Monique: Fudge it, girl! Kim: It doesn't hurt to ask.

And it's a bit offensive, because they knew nothing about Zita at the time, so the only reason to think Ron doesn't stand a chance is because she just has a low opinion of Ron in general.

(I'm not going to get into it here, I have several other posts about it.)

But thanks for your commentary, because I really do appreciate it.

I believe that Ron Stoppable is neurodivergent. Many of his traits line up with being neurodivergent.

Disregard for Gender Norms

In "Mind Games" Ron mentions liking the skirt on Kim's cheer uniform.

In "Attack of the Killer Bebes" he got a movie makeup kit as a birthday present.

In "Two to Tutor" he is revealed to love baking and is mentioned as being interested in interpretive dance.

He becomes a fan of the Oh Boyz in "Oh Boyz".

He becomes a fan of "Kim Style" in "Kimitation Nation".

He is implied to be interested in Britina dolls in "Queen Bebe".

These are all things typically regarded as feminine interests, but when Ron has his crisis about being a man in "Ron the Man", none of that stuff is what he's concerned about. He's not afraid any of that stuff makes him less of a man, and he feels no shame about them (most of the time).

Lack of Concern for Popularity

There are several times where Ron is shown to not care about popularity, though there are also several times where Ron is shown to care a great deal about how others perceive him.

Obsessive Tendencies

In "October 31st" Ron is shown to still be interested in going trick-or-treating, despite the fact that most people would have outgrown this hobby by this point.

In "Grande Size Me" Ron becomes obsessed with proving Barkin wrong about the food pyramid, and begins behaving in a defensive manner over it.

(Of course, Ron invented the Naco, which was the specific item Barkin was criticizing, so it's a bit understandable.)

In "Dimension Twist" Ron spends three days straight watching cable television.

Ron has a tendency to become obsessed with his interests, and defensive if someone doesn't like them.

Hobbies and Interests

In "Monkey Fist Strikes" Ron is revealed to be interested in video games, and this is mentioned again in "Steal Wheels".

In "Larry's Birthday" it's revealed that Ron has regular meetups with Larry and Larry's friends.

In "Queen Bebe" Ron is implied to have an interest in Britina dolls.

Ron is a fan of the Oh Boyz in "Oh Boyz", even when they're so unpopular no one goes to their concerts. In addition to this, he doesn't even realize they're no longer popular.

Ron may not having been looking for a naked mole rat specifically, but he does consider them to be cool pets.

In "Two to Tutor" there is a brief mention of Ron having an interest in interpretive dancing.

He's still interested in trick-or-treating in "October 31st".

Many of Ron's interests are things typically regarded as "uncool" or "childish", things his peers are usually not interested in.

Social Life and Anxiety

Ron is frequently shown to lack social skills - bad at picking up intonation, doesn't have many friends, has a hard time dating, and is generally believed to be unpopular.

There's also Ron's tendency to panic, and his occasional bouts of paranoia.

(Though his belief that Barkin is targeting him specifically was apparently correct.)

In fact, Ron's anxiety reached a breaking point when, in "Odds Man In", he experienced such bad anxiety, he locked himself in some kind of panic room.

(Also, where was this? When did he have it built?)

Ron is also concerned about being replaced as Kim's best friend or sidekick, as shown in "Pain King vs Cleopatra", or boyfriend, as shown in "Ill-Suited".

So Ron displays many traits associated with neurodivergent teenagers.

And these also happen to be the traits that the show used to write him as a "loser".

And that's one of the reasons I dislike so much of the show's humor being at Ron's expense - because it often relies on poking fun at Ron not behaving in a neurotypical way.

And as someone who is not neurotypical, seeing the character that's the most like me being the "buffoon" character, the "inept sidekick" character, the one who is incompetent and incapable, well...it kind of hurts.

Because it kind of feels like they're saying what I and many other neurodivergent people have heard our whole lives - that you can't do anything, and you look foolish for trying.

Look, I realize this wasn't intentional. But, even unintentionally, Ron is very heavily neurodivergent-coded, and that happens too often in media - humor that relies on someone having neurodivergent traits and making fun of them for it.

And we've all grown past that.

Do you really think all of ML's problems would be fixed if Adrien never existed?

Good heavens, no.

Adrien isn't the problem. He's just a symptom of a much larger issue. That issue being laziness and poor writing that comes in the form of "tell, don't show", plot threads that go nowhere, and lack of character development or plot progression that leads to a setup of "Status Quo Is God". Removing Adrien wouldn't fix all of that. Heck, it wouldn't fix any of that.

I can't fault the writers for replacing Felix with Adrien. Even if I and others could write out a plot with Felix, that's not to say everyone could or that the writers could. It could very well be that Felix as he was in the PV simply didn't work for the setup they had in mind.

...the issue here is that the setup they had in mind seems to require stagnancy. Where Hawk Moth attacks without winning and the heroes fight off the akumas without really trying to track him as the source and the two leads chase each other around in circles without anyone making any headway in either of these battles. Marinette wants to date Adrien. Chat wants to date Ladybug. It's why all her plans to ask him out fail while his attempts to express his feelings aren't taken seriously. And there is no forward movement, whether in their arc or in the fight against Hawk Moth. There wasn't even build or lead up to the two falling in love. They just started out episode one with crushes on each other and remained having crushes on each other until arguably season 5.

But no good story is stagnant. In this setup, characters need to do things and there needs to be a feeling of forward momentum.

Break it down this way: What is Adrien's problem? What is his goal? What is the obstacle to his goal?

Yes, we could say Adrien's dad being a supervillain and a neglectful jerk is Adrien's main problem, but it's not the problem Adrien is actually focused on in the show. Instead, if we could say Adrien has a problem, it would be that he wants to date Ladybug. And his goal is to date Ladybug. And the source of the problem and obstacle to his goal is...Ladybug.

So his problem, his goal, and the obstacle are all the same thing. This ultimately seems to make his problems Ladybug’s fault then because the problem would be solved if she gives in to his wants rather than by any real effort on his part.

Adrien as he is in the show doesn't do anything. And he doesn't need to do anything because he is at his base a character that things are done for. He doesn't have a goal or direction or drive. He just comes out to deal with akumas as needed, flirt with Ladybug when he can, and then be sad because his life is so hard when he doesn't get what he wants. We don't see him doing anything else. We don't see him making friends. We don't see him engaging in school. We don't even really see how he interacts with the classmates he only recently met. Things happen around him, but he is not a driving force in anything in the show.

But Felix in the PV is a very driving character. He had a problem: he's cursed. What does he need to break the curse? A kiss from Ladybug. What are the obstacles to his goal: Ladybug refusing to kiss him and Hawk Moth trying to kill her. How does he get that kiss? By flirting with her and trying to earn her affections while protecting her and making sure she doesn't DIE against an akuma before he gets that special curse-breaking kiss.

It's the start of Felix's journey. His goal and the various obstacles to that goal that make his story interesting and his growth possible. As such, I see him as a character who would progress in his attempts to obtain his goal as well as one who would progress the storyline...which is also accurate of 3D Felix since that's kind of what he's done more in his relatively few appearances than the series has in 5 seasons.

Adrien didn't have to have Felix's personality. He didn't have to have the same goals or level of drive. But he could still have had things where he grows and helps to push the plot forward.

Adrien...

...just started school. He has no friends, knows no one, and is trying to learn the ins and outs of public education. How is he doing in the different setting with teachers instead of tutors? How is he trying to get along with his classmates? Does he experience bullying? Does anyone NOT like him? What is he going through as a new student who had been homeschooled all his life?

...is friends with Chloe. What's it like learning his "only friend" is a bully? How do people respond to this? Does anyone (besides Marinette) fear him or avoid him because if he's friends with Chloe, he must be just like her?

...is a superhero. He could have been spending time learning the history of the ring and trying to develop his powers. Trying to get stronger? Trying to get to know Plagg? What is he experiencing as a highly known model who is also a superhero and having to juggle those dual identities?

...has a dead mom who died of a "mysterious illness". Given that this loss supposedly occurred about a year prior, he could still be mourning her. Maybe trying to learn what happened to her.

...has a neglectful father. How is he trying to interact with his dad? How does he feel about his dad not being around? What is he doing to try to resolve this?

...has a supervillain father. Like, I cannot stress this enough! His dad is a SUPERVILLAIN! His dad is THE SUPERVILLAIN THEY ARE FIGHTING! People were predicting him finding out and joining Gabriel to try and revive his mom! People were living for the eventual heartbreak of when Adrien finds out the truth! Entire AUs, fan arts, and fanfics were born of this very idea! Going into the drama and struggle Adrien would be experiencing being caught between the "right thing" and the girl he loves and his duty vs his father and his mother and his family. HOW CAN THEY JUST IGNORE THIS?!

But we don't get any of that. Instead, we get Adrien...

...just acclimated with no issues in school and automatically friends with everyone. Good for him, I guess. Wish it was that easy for the rest of us.

...doing little besides occasional comments to Chloe as she is completely horrible for five seasons including Chloe stealing from classmates, getting the entire school punished for something she did, stealing a Miraculous, trying to crash a train, and betraying the city to Hawk Moth. But it takes him learning about something she did to Marinette a year ago for him to finally decide enough is enough and drop her as a friend.

...only goes out to deal with akumas as they come but does nothing to try and figure out his powers and history, get stronger, or try to track Hawk Moth.

...just moves on from dead mom. No relevance here aside from wanting to see a movie she was in or making a passing comment about how she got sick. No attempt to find out what happened to her. No questioning what she may have wanted for him.

...is just sad about his neglectful father neglecting him but seems to get over it rather quickly.

...never learns his father is a supervillain. Okay, I take it back. He learns twice and those timelines are erased with no real repercussions other than trauma for Marinette, so it really doesn't feel like they count. The pieces are all there, though! He knows his dad has the grimoire but never questions him about it! Never asks his dad what the deal was with Tibet! No question about how mom died or what is going on with Nathalie or what he's doing with a hidden mechanism in mom's portrait.

Adrien has potential. He has plot threads and aspects that could be used and goals he could have. But the writing does nothing with him, so while he has a number of things he COULD do to move forward and progress as a character or for the plot, nothing comes of it.

And that all boils down to a problem with the writing.

Adrien was chosen over Felix as an "easier" option to keep the story at a standstill so they could drag it out for as long as needed. That doesn't mean it should have been. There were so many paths that could have been taken, but Adrien was given the personality of a wet noodle, so he acts on none of them because that was what the writers wanted out of his character.

I wasn't even aware they were trying to make it seem like Marinette struggles to make friends.

Like, she's so popular and loved that struggling to make friends is the one problem Marinette doesn't have.

Sure, they tell us she had this problem in "Origins" but it's not like they actually show Marinette struggling to make friends. People just love Marinette instantly.

She's a bit quirky, and nerdy, and prone to misunderstandings, but none of those have made it hard for Marinette to make friends.

So saying she struggles with that is just disingenuous.

As someone who ACTUALLY struggled to make friends in HS its insulting when they say Marinette does so.

People who "struggle to make friends" dont get elected class president

People who "struggle to make friends" dont have pajama parties with their girlfriends ocasionally

People who "struggle to make friends" arent friends with famous comedians and international rockstars

People who "struggle to make friends" dont date supermodels. Or at all.

Being "quirky" or "nerdy" or "prone to misunderstandings " is not the same thing of being a weird outcast, and for sure doesnt make you unpopular.

One of the reasons I refuse to watch Rainbow World is because its introduction completely derailed a plot that could have led to character development.

"The Big Day Off" showed everyone getting a day off of classes and assignments, and showed them dealing with problems during them.

Jade and Skyler want to spend their time relaxing, but both have a hard time doing nothing so they keep finding new tasks to do.

Bella and Ruby are planning to revamp the Rainbow Union, but have gotten artist's block and can't come up with anything.

Poppy's planning to bake and Amaya's freaking out over an online personality test.

Violet and Sunny were planning to have a fun day together.

This where the problem arises.

When we make it to Violet and Sunny's part of the story, Violet realizes she lost her phone and freaks out about it.

Now, we could have had a plot of Violet struggling with her social media addiction while spending time with Sunny, but, instead, Sunny and Violet find a magic egg and spend the day taking care of it so any conflict that they might have had is overshadowed.

I would have liked it better if we had Sunny and Violet doing fun things together, and Violet keeps instinctively reaching for her phone. Sunny notices, and eventually she's just sad.

Violet: "Sunny, what's wrong? Aren't you having fun?"

Sunny: "I am. I just...I miss you."

Violet: "I've been right across the hall for months. I think it's the closest we've ever been. Aside from all those sleepovers."

Sunny: "I don't mean physical distance."

Violet: "What do you mean?"

Sunny: "I mean...I totally support your dream of being an influencer, but I miss being able to do things with you without you trying to get the best shot. I miss just having fun with you, without you worrying about showing the rest of the world. I miss you. I think I've seen your phone's camera more than you, lately."

Violet: "Oh. I didn't know you felt that way."

Sunny: "I'm trying to be supportive. You're my best friend and I want to support you."

Violet: "I don't want you to support me if it upsets you. I guess I do have a problem."

Sunny: "I mean, I wouldn't say it's a problem..."

Violet: "But it is, because it upsets you so much. I don't want to upset my friends, especially you. I'm going to try to do better, Sunny. I promise."

Sunny: "Thanks. And I guess I'll start telling you when you do something that upsets me."

Violet: "I'd like that."

Then, Sunny and Violet would hug and discuss their plans for the rest of the day.

See how interesting this would have been? We could have had acknowledgement of not just Violet's greatest flaw (social media addiction) but also Sunny's (overly forgiving and passive) with them both recognizing their flaws and promising to work on them.

Instead, we have Sunny and Violet taking care of an egg all day.

They deserved better.

Not the same anon but Kim has the right to get annoyed at the coupon thing, that scene gave me second hand embarrassment and i think is incredible ooc when Ron in previous seasons had already done things like get a job and being good at it and done things like buy Kim jackets plus there were the Naco royalties.

I feel like at that point, money shouldn’t be an issue specially for Ron, this is a case where the narrative ignored previous episodes to make a situation feasible. i didn’t like it either because Ron was made to look pretty bad as well.

His comedic relief status allows this scene to happen and is juts harmless comedy at the end of the day , but I wasn’t fan of how his character was portrayed in season 4 Ron usually got flanderized just for some cheap humor.

So, honestly, I'd be embarrassed, too.

Though, I can't remember the last time a high schooler, even a senior one, put so much stock into going to nice restaurants and not having to use the coupon and/or kid's menu to pay for it.

A real high schooler probably wouldn't care too much about how much the dates cost, but they would be embarrassed by the "doofy" and "stupido" thing, so I'll give you that.

Let me try making my complaint clear; Kim could fix the problems with their dating sitch herself, she just won't.

If Kim is embarrassed, she could offer to pay. She got a job way easier than Ron did.

Not to mention that, according to the narrative, Ron lost all his Naco money, and isn't shown ever getting more, so it's not like she thought he was rich again.

But Kim doesn't offer to pay, and also complains about how their date nights have gotten stale.

Again, I can't remember real high schoolers putting so much stock into doing something new and exciting for dates.

When Ron takes her to a nice dinner at the Actuary of Year Awards, where Ron's dad is receiving an award, she mopes the whole time.

She doesn't even pretend to be happy for Mr. Stoppable, she just mopes.

Can you imagine being happy if your significant other, one you've known most of your life, moped and pouted at a ceremony where your dad was receiving an award?

I don't think either of them is too OOC in "The Big Job" - Ron doesn't really like doing a lot of work for things he's not interested in, and Kim has a bad habit of caring too much about the price tag.

And that's honestly the worst part; they are acting in character.

But that doesn't make it right. Or fair.

Why does Ron get criticized for a having to use coupons to fund their dates to places most high schoolers couldn't afford to go to anyways?

Why is it bad that Ron doesn't pay for their dates without coupons, but not bad that Kim doesn't pay for their dates at all?

Sure, the whole "you're twelve" thing was embarrassing, but Kim's complaint wasn't about that one incident, it's about him using coupons at all.

If Kim thinks their date nights have hit a rut, she should probably offer ideas for dates, instead of just complaining about it and moping when Ron actually does take her to a new, fancy event for a date.

Okay, I get that the Actuary of the Year Awards probably wasn't very exciting, but it was Ron's dad receiving an award, she could have at least been happy for him.

But she pouts instead.

Basically, it feels like Ron is putting all the effort into pleasing Kim, and Kim keeps complaining about it. She offers no actual solutions, or gratitude for how hard Ron's trying, but complains about it all the same.

And she's not putting in that same amount of effort to please Ron.

Why don't they ever do something Ron would like for a date? Like go see "The Finger Guy" or a wrestling event?

I mean, they probably go to Bueno Nacho all the time, but it's not as though Kim doesn't like the place - she's willingly gone there without Ron before.

So, why is Kim the only one who gets special dates?

They're supposed to be partners, but their dates only reflect Kim's desires and interests; none of Ron's desires or interests are shown for their dates.

Ron seems to be the only one putting in effort to please their partner.

And that's not how healthy relationships work.

It has come to my attention that a lot of people are probably under the impression that I hate Kim since I criticize her behavior a lot.

This is not true.

I do believe that Kim is selfish and very flawed.

And I'm frustrated that her flaws are often overlooked or ignored or, in the rare instances where her harmful actions are actually acknowledged, downplayed, easily forgiven, and not changed.

But this is not because I hate Kim.

This is because I love Kim, or at least I used to, and wish she had gotten better character development.

Kim is the main character. Heck, Kim is the titular character. Kim is the focus of the show.

But Ron is the relatable character. Ron is the one who gets the most development. Ron got so much development that, in the fourth season, they actually had him take a back seat on some missions to a literal baby because they made Ron too good to keep being Kim's sidekick.

(Not sure if that was their thought process or intention, but it happened.)

Overall, Kim remains a static character. What little character development she gets does not compare to Ron. At all.

Now, obviously I love Ron, too.

But Kim also should have gotten character development. And every time the creators had a chance for it, they decided against it.

I would honestly love Kim a lot more if they had given her the same level of character development they gave Ron.

I mean, the fans deserve that, at least.

Kim Possible: Great Hero, Not So Great Person (Redux)

I've rewatched the show more recently and noticed some new details, so I've decided to redo my first post on this blog.

Kim is known for saving the world and helping people with things like park cleanups and cats stuck in trees.

But she is also known to put her own desires before her friends, even if it causes them harm.

And that is not something a good person does.

These are not "mistakes" because Kim is doing them intentionally.

And it's not a one-time thing:

"Bueno Nacho"

Kim forges an application in Ron’s name before she even brings up the idea of working there to him.

When he's upset with her for doing that, she uses the puppy dog pout, which he explicitly states she knows he can't resist, to get him to take the job.

She refuses to be supportive of him or happy for him when he turns out to be good at it, to the point of refusing to do the job at all.

I will give Kim credit for apologizing for her jealousy, but she never apologizes for manipulating him to take the job in the first place.

"The New Ron"

She forces Ron into a haircut, despite the fact that even her own mother had reservations about it.

When Ron tells her he hates it and why, she feigns sympathy, steals his hat, and runs through the halls yelling that he got a new haircut.

When Ron starts to embrace the new haircut and becomes popular, she hates it. But despite his popularity, he's not a jerk.

He didn't abandon Rufus, Rufus wandered off and Ron gently chastised him for it.

She was only upset because Ron was starting to change into someone who cared about hair care and appearances.

(Which, if that wasn't her goal with the new haircut, then what was her goal?)

She apologizes for saying Ron needed a new haircut, but not for the lengths she went to to force him into one, nor for her contempt for him after he started to embrace the haircut.

At the end, she tries to tell him that it's what's on the inside that counts, but it's very hypocritical since she was the one who wanted him to change in the first place.

"Crush"

Kim locks Ron in the janitor closet, though semi-unintentionally; she wasn't intending to lock him in there, but she did shove him back in when he was trying to leave.

She ignores Wade’s attempts at reaching her, even though Wade never contacts her unless it’s important.

(I will give Kim some leeway here, as a teenage girl deserves one night to herself.)

She also expressed no concern at Ron being missing, nor does she seem to even notice he's missing.

We also have no idea how long Ron spent in that closet, but even just an hour is too long.

(Also, that is a really big janitor's closet. The ones at my high school were closet sized, not room sized.)

"October 31st"

When Kim's told the bracelet is armor that grows when she lies, she keeps lying, even though it was probably unnecessary. Her parents and Ron would have been understanding about her wanting to go to a party with her crush.

Her actions led to her destroying Monique's garage door, which probably landed Monique in trouble.

And though Kim does get grounded for lying, she doesn't get in trouble for putting others in danger.

(Probably because Wade's the only one who could confirm that she knew she was putting others in danger.)

"The Twin Factor"

She uses the Neural-Compliance Chips on her brothers, after saying that just making them would be unethical.

After an entire episode about how bad they are.

After being a victim of them herself.

It’s meant to be a joke.

This is not the kind of thing anyone should joke about.

"Grudge Match"

Kim thinks telling Ron that he might stand a chance with a girl is "fudging".

At this point, they know so little about Zita that they think her name is Annie.

There's no reason to believe Ron wouldn't stand a chance except for having a low opinion of Ron in general.

They also had their conversation about it while sitting across the table from Ron at Bueno Nacho, so there's a good chance he heard them.

And despite this belief that he doesn't stand a chance, she spends the rest of the episode angrily telling him that there are no rules to try to encourage him to ask her out.

"Adventures in Rufus-Sitting"

Ron's steps of taking care of Rufus aren't just long because he's an exotic animal, those are also things Ron learned about taking care of Rufus from experience.

He also refers to Rufus as his son in "Mind Games", so Kim's disregard for how to take care of Rufus is extra mean given that Rufus clearly means a lot to Ron.

Not only does Rufus accidentally eat the chip due to Kim's negligence, she doesn't even notice it's missing until Wade tells her it's broadcasting a signal from inside Rufus.

And she lies to Ron about all of it on multiple occasions. I can understand some of them, since she was dealing with an emergency, but this is the kind of thing pet owners like to know about.

"Exchange"

Kim and Monique were both arranging “accidental” run-ins with Hirotaka to ask him out, but Kim’s the only one who had Wade track Hirotaka’s movements to do it.

I know Monique couldn’t do that, but the point is, Kim took it to creepy stalker levels for a guy she’s known for less than a week.

(I'm also interested in the fact that Monique was confident she could take Kim in a fight.)

"Return to Wannaweep"

Though Kim and Bonnie both sabotage each other, Kim started it.

She unplugged Bonnie’s alarm clock, supposedly to charge the Kimmunicator, but there was another available outlet that she could’ve used.

She also uses all the hot water in the showers so Bonnie can’t have any, which wouldn’t harm just Bonnie but anyone else who may need to use the showers after Bonnie.

And she refuses to take any of Ron's feelings seriously.

Even if Gil hadn't actually been up to something, Ron was still stuck sharing a cabin with a guy who used to bully him and had attacked him and the squad at some point. He has every right to be uncomfortable with it, but Kim keeps dismissing his feelings because she's too focused on sabotaging Bonnie so she could win a plastic stick that's been painted gold.

Dr. Lurkin apologizes to Ron for not taking him seriously, but Kim doesn't.

"Go Team Go"

Despite getting on Ron's case for cheating in "Naked Genius", which is completely fair, Kim had no problems using her newfound super strength for gym class or cheerleading, which is unfair and hypocritical of her.

"The Big Job"

Though I agree the "doofy" and "stupido" thing was embarrassing, coupons shouldn't be embarrassing, especially since Kim isn't offering to pay for it herself.

I can understand how the kids' menu thing was embarrassing, especially since Kim wouldn't want to order a kids' meal. However, she should just let Ron order of the kids' menu if he wants to.

The whole plot around getting jobs would have been better if Kim was getting one to pay for dates herself, not to "encourage" Ron to get one to pay for dates.

And then Ron decides Kim deserves better and starts looking for a job himself anyways.

"Fashion Victim"

I could understand being upset about not getting to see the designs, but Monique signed an NDA and would be risking not just her job but her future career in the fashion industry if she told Kim. And having Wade check the contract for loopholes is obsessive and could’ve landed them all in legal trouble.

Hassling Monique to break an NDA and trying to get Wade to find a loophole so Monique can tell her is the kind of thing Kim would've gotten fired for.

(Also, there is no way Wade was just given a copy of that NDA, so he's definitely in trouble if Monique ever decides to snitch on him.)

"Big Bother"

We learn in "A Sitch in Time" that Kim always wanted a little sister, so it's no surprise that she took to Hana immediately.

But Ron's life was changed against his will without warning while he was at school, so a little sympathy would be expected from his girlfriend. Especially since the attic isn't as nice or comfortable as his old bedroom.

When Yori needs Ron's help on a mission, Kim refuses to let him go because she doesn't trust Ron alone with Yori, even though he's never given her any reason to think he'd be disloyal and Yori had requested help from him specifically.

"Clothes Minded"

I know they’re criminals who are behind bars, but that doesn’t make it right for Kim to use The Fashionistas’ design without their permission.

Monique didn't know it was The Fashionistas' design, and Rufus is a six-year-old rodent, so he wouldn't know any better.

But Kim did know it was their design.

I know they wanted her to bust them out, and I'm not saying she should, but it doesn't seem right for her to use their design without their permission.

(It's also kind of a disappointment that Kim is wearing a design made by The Fashionistas instead of Monique, her fashionable best friend who helped her put them behind bars in the first place. That would've been so much cooler.)

"The Cupid Effect"

At no point should Kim and Ron have been trying to get Monique to date Wade.

(A more realistic way of handling that would be to have them tease her about it for a bit, not seriously asking her to consider it.)

Also, Kim didn't actually need to hit Monique with the Cupid Ray just because she "didn't have time" to deal with Monique being upset. She was in a car, she could've driven away.

Because she did, Monique refused to leave Wade's side and ended up on a mission that she would have never gone on if she had been herself at the time.

Conclusion:

If this show handled relationships a bit more realistically, people would at least be mad at Kim for her actions, and stay mad. Kim being a hero doesn’t excuse such behavior, nor does her being a teenager.

As an action hero, Kim is great; cool, calm, collected, and always victorious.

But as a person, Kim is controlling, competitive, manipulative, insensitive, and more focused on her own wants than others around her.

And those aren't qualities someone who's meant to be a role model should have.