I Feel Very Strongly About Recipe For Turnabout, But I Don’t Think It’s A Very Good Case. I Just

That's such a good point. There’s also the fact that their both involved with Phoenix but Krisnix is super popular as a toxic ship while I've seen almost zero Phoenix x Dahlia. I haven't played Apollo Justice but Kristoph and Dahlia have so many parallels that this disparity in the fandom is insane to me (poison? manipulator? manipulates a sibling to do their dirty work? polite/pleasant facade?).

Dahlia has so much potential that's literally right there in canon, why are we ignoring it?

god remind me one day to go on like. a proper rant about how people in the fandom treat dahlia vs how they treat kristoph. kristoph is seen as some mastermind who has some deep secret trauma because it’s vaguely hinted at while we KNOW for a fact that dahlia definitely has a fuckton of trauma between what we see in the flashback case and just, her involvement in the fey family in general but especially how she specifically was treated but????? nobody fucking cares??? like sure she’s not justified but neither is kristoph and i’ve still seen people arguing that he is. he’s so babygirlified by the fandom and i fucking hate it. people are tagging him in posts about evil WOMEN. dahlia is RIGHT. THERE. like my fault for expecting people to give basic respect to women but good fucking lird i could not make this kind of shit up if i tried you people are ridiculous

When I think about Larry in AA3 I wonder if the writer suddenly decided they didn't like him that much and decided to make it known in the game to the point where it bleeds to the characters (both Phoenix, especially him! and Edgeworth seem to see him as the 'annoying ass friend') and himself by flanderizing him or if this was an genuine decision to see how a person's life can go downhill over time and tried to make it funny.

Honestly I think it's the former (writers decided they didn't like Larry anymore), because I don't necessarily think Larry's life is going downhill. He found his talent in art with a mentor and he's attempting to become a better person... only for his mentor to then die. If it were anyone else this would spark some sort of meaningful character arc... but it doesn't. The game just turns Larry into more of a laughing stock. I don't get it, truly. They drop so much information about his trauma but it's treated like a joke. Phoenix and Miles don't even act like they care about him as a friend anymore... just why??

Also I do believe writers' attitudes towards characters often bleed into the writing and then bleed into fan perception.

I don't know if this has been talked about before, but I really disliked the way the Careers were characterised in sotr. They felt like more of a caricature than in thg1, even if they were the minor antagonists in both. But they seemed more believable in thg1, although they had less lines. More competent? Like, if they trained for the Games for years, why would they be so airheaded? If it were up to me I'd make sure my volunteers were both strong and bright. And teach them how to prepare for the interviews!

And them always being the bully stereotype misses out on really interesting topics. For sure fame is one of the motivators, they're teens made to believe the Games are the highest honour, but why do they always have to be fame seeking brutes? Why don't we ever see them from the angle of training to protect the younger or sick kids from their district, even if it's just implied? If someone is guaranteed to volunteer each year in the career districts, the non career kids have stress-free teens (unless there's a QQ twist, I guess). They can take all the tesserae they need because it doesn't really matter how many times your name is in the bowl, their parents need not worry, no one's starving...

Idk, I guess all these things can be implicit because we know the system, and it makes sense they're minor antagonists because we seem them from a non career pov. But. I feel like there's a lot of missed opportunities world building wise when it comes to Career districts; not in a way that woobifies them (they're not the most oppressed district if such a thing can be compared, although, they're still district yk) it's just!!! interesting stuff that makes sense and I wish it was more present. I have more to say but this post will be more of a jumbled mess than it already is lol.

Something I'm fond of saying is "The villain drives the plot but the hero sets the tone." Something that's very important about this is that the resolution to the conflicts presented need to match the hero's tone. If your story doesn't believe problems can be solved the way the hero wants to solve them... why is this the hero?

If you want your problems to be solved with brutal catharsis, then your hero should be someone who believes in brutal catharsis.

If you want your problems to be solved with forgiveness and reconciliation, then your hero should be someone who believes in forgiveness and reconciliation.

They don't have to begin there. This can be something they come around to over the course of the story, as they grow and change per their character arc. But by the time of their ultimate encounter with the villain, their values should be the values that drive the story forward.

There's this thing in D&D that some DMs do. Where, when you roll enough damage to deplete the monster's hit points, they'll turn to you and say, "That's a kill. Describe for the group how you take the monster down." And you're allowed to come up with some cool maneuver or something that your character did in order to deliver the finishing blow.

The hero's ultimate triumph over the villain is a lot like this. More than any other part of the story, this moment is their apotheosis. It should be a celebration of everything they are and everything they stand for.

You have defeated the villain; Now describe for the group what form that victory takes.

Phoenix believes in people but he doesn't trust them, oh my god you're so right. I think it's more so that he believes in the ideal, rather than the person themselves, at least as time goes on or for people he doesn't know well. The ideal of being an attorney, the ideal that people need to be saved.

I think what I love the most about AA is that characters have a duality to them that I don't see often in media. They have actual flaws and do actual bad things, and it's not glossed over. Phoenix is a fundamentally good person, he helps people at the drop of a hat, risks his life for them. Has a penchant for taking strays under his wing. He believes in people... but also not really. He carries a literal lie detector with him at all times, and only employs people who can also peer into other people's hearts. So is he really that trusting? Sure he trusts his clients are innocent, but he doesn't trust they will tell him the truth at all (there's always something to lie about). He believes himself naive, and that's why he works extra hard not to be. Some people think he changed with his disbarment but I feel like when he actually changed was after Dahlia. He became less and less trusting as time went on. And Phoenix actually does forge evidence and risks his subordinate's career, and he says pretty nasty things sometimes (that one time to Edgeworth had got to hurt, badly, especially if you consider that the note could have been genuine at first, which we don't know for sure), has a pretty tactless and somewhat hurtful sense of humor, brings his daughter to cheat at poker, and doesn't tell said daughter she actually has some family left alive. He's secretive, elusive and cryptic, and masks it under a false pretence of goofiness. Miles is, by contrast, very easy to read. He may appear emotionally stunted but is one of the more emphathetic characters. He realizes when he's wrong and immediately needs to correct those wrongs. He grows uneasy and uncertain and eventually recognizes when he's mistaken. By the end of it he begins to help people naturally, without even thinking about it as much as he would have in the past. He helps so many people, he has basically got Phoenix's savior complex 2.0 but the healthy kind where he doesn't jump off a bridge. But... he was also actually cruel, and did send innocent people to their graves (was he really so naive to believe whichever defendant came his way was guilty?). He feigned his death disregarding other people's feelings, and while you could say he had no obligation towards Phoenix (apart from basic decency and respect towards someone who had turned his life around to save him), he still abandoned Franziska, who was still just a kid and had just discovered her father was a psychopath. She probably thought, at some point, that the apple didn't fall that far from the tree. That's it's somehow her fault as well. He may be rude and antagonistic, frank to a fault. Isn't afraid of telling stuff to your face. But he also cares about the people he loves so much, to the point he doesn't hesitate to risk his career and break the law multiple times. He may appear a pessimist but he's pretty idealistic at heart, it's quite funny that his favourite show is about an hero of justice, isn't it? Godot is... well, we don't know much about it from before his coma, but he definitely shared Mia's sentiments for helping people in their hour of need. But when he wakes from a 6-year coma he's so broken that he just pins the blame on the most absurd person to blame it on, settles on a complicated plan, and also prosecutes on that particular murder he should just confess upon. Iris was sweet, innocent, self-sacrificing. She knew absolutely nothing about the world apart from what Bikini or her sister told her. She was naive and falsely thought she could fix everything, that her sister was salvageable, that she could save Phoenix. But she still ended up lying to the person she loved and abetting a murder. That's why I love these characters so much. They're interesting and their stories make sense. People don't remain unchanged from what happens to them. People are multi-faceted and complex. You can't sum them up in a bunch of characteristics and aspect them to act on every single one of them, always, consistently. Sometimes people break. They make mistakes they regret, ...and some they don't.

This!! I do get why slow burn wrightworth is so popular and I personally prefer them getting together right after the events of AA3 (Miles being there for Phoenix during disbarment is a NEED okay?), but I totally get this. Sometimes two less than healthy people getting together will end in ruin but what about hope? What about the fact that you don’t need to be fully healed to be loved? What about communication and trust and working together and finding the truth? They clash but also fit perfectly in court, so why not in their personal lives too?

And gosh, Farewell My Turnabout would hit so much harder if they were together in the trilogy (and by that, OP, I assume you mean all three games). “We aren’t some sort of heroes. We’re only human, you and I”— Love does not “save someone”, it does not fix everything but that doesn’t mean you should stop fighting.

Hell, all of Justice for All would hit so much harder. Now Franziska has more reason to believe Phoenix “killed” Miles. Now Franziska’s deep hurt disguised as a desire for vengeance has a whole new layer of pain: your foolish love killed my little brother, so I cannot show that I love him. I must fight him and I must win and then he will never leave me behind again.

And when Phoenix says “I decided that the Miles Edgeworth I knew had died… At least, that’s what I told myself”, it would hurt even more because the Edgeworth he knew wouldn’t have abandoned him, and the Edgeworth he knew would have been saved by his love.

(Side note, everything I said about JFA I believe to be true for canon as well. It would just be amplified and more heartbreaking if narumitsu were together during the original trilogy)

Also it is so hard to find fanfics with this concept but this is the closest I’ve found, enjoy! (We need more fanfics with this premise please)

I Turn To You (For My Comfort) Phoenix and Miles get together post Turnabout Goodbyes

if i woke up (next to you) Phoenix and Miles get together post Farewell My Turnabout

Turnabout Groceries and it’s sequel Home for (Almost) Christmas (which is not finished currently) AU where Phoenix and Miles adopt Trudy and Kay respectively before the events of the first game and narumitsu get together post Turnabout Samurai

Wow this is such a long reblog but OP you truly inspired me.

I can certainly see why people are obsessed about the slow burn reading of narumitsu, the one where they wait for 7, 9 or even more years before they ever do anything romantic together, but. Their relationship in the trilogy era could be so, so interesting and complicated and yet so. Warm and full of comfort.

Just... Two traumatized and mentally ill men trying their best to figure out this relationship thing. Phoenix remembering what it's like to have a romantic partner again, after being betrayed, after being left behind, and now confronting his abandonment issues. Edgeworth learning how to love somebody, and now trying to express it, perhaps searching for his own ways of doing so.

Yes, they encounter a number of problems. Edgeworth gets this nagging feeling at times that he's too broken for a romantic relationship, that he's a parasite leaching on another person's care and affection, thus at times he acts aloof and withdrawn. Phoenix gets paranoid that he'll end up completely alone again very soon, whenever he notices Edgeworth getting so cold all of a sudden. Edgeworth genuinely thinks at the worst moments that the right thing to do is to just break up right now so he doesn't waste any more of Phoenix' time. Phoenix is anxious that one day Edgeworth can just disappear on him again without saying a word. Edgeworth feels forever indebted for everything Phoenix did to help him, and now when he notices his partner struggling he wants to do the same for him, but he doesn't even know why Phoenix is troubled, and even less about how to help him. Phoenix is less than honest sometimes on how he feels because he really thinks that his problems are nothing compared to Edgeworth's, but he can't help but feel bitter nevertheless that his partner isn't that helping. And then feels like a petty person for that bitterness and knows that he can't be actually cross at Edgeworth for not being a mind-reader. If truth be told, they both think that the other "has it worse", so they both make the same mistake of not opening up fully until something not very good occurs.

"But why didn't you tell me anything??" They both ask each other. Often. But the important thing is, is that they get to ask that eventually. Say sorry to each other. And then move on knowing each other a little bit better, and maybe not repeating the same mistake in the future. At least, the chances are lower now.

Would it be unhealthy for them to be together in that era? Well, depends on your definition of the word 'unhealthy', but I'm a firm believer that it's better to figure out things together, with your loved one, and that's what they are doing. Healing goes much smoother when you have mutual support. And sometimes hurt people can understand and help other hurt people better than any 'healthy' person can. You are in pain, and I'm also in pain, so I understand how you feel and want to help you get through this. It's all about trust and empathy. And isn't it the core of narumitsu and their relationship?

So basically, while it takes a lot of work for them to be together at this point, it is worthwhile. And that is why I prefer the interpretation that they have something going on already in the trilogy. I really want them to struggle, but make it work. I want their relationship to begin not in the best possible moment, perhaps, but to grow more comfortable and mature with years regardless. It is not ideal and far from the perfection, and that is exactly why it's so real and beautiful.

THEY SHOULDVE HUGGED IT OUT 💔💔💔💔💔

What I mean by a character being "whumped" is them being on the receiving end of hurt/comfort.

Kind of a follow up to my last poll: here. I removed the "no preference" options because I'm forcing you guys to choose >:) Feel free to explain your reasons in the tags/comments!

This is literally how I view the wrightworth relationship progression through the trilogy.

Phoenix is 100% more emotionally constipated than Edgeworth is and I will stand by that.

Space to share a headcanon you rotate in your brain like a rotisserie chicken

I have a very specific idea how the mitsunaru ship dynamic goes:

Also that one headcanon about Phoenix suppressing his college self means everything to me...

The idea of him getting back to that mentality for a moment and trying to backpedal out of embarrassment is just

Iris is a personal fav for me!