Paul Mentioning Gay Rumors?

What do you make of the infamous hunter davies phone call? Paul does not come off well at all so I do think it was meant to be private. Not that I think Paul would be tell Hunter that he & John did hand stuff or whatever regardless but I do think he truthfully has no idea what had John so upset w him so I agree I don’t think there was some big rejection in India (but then wtf is that get back scene) or elsewhere but I do think John seems driven by some hurt “the wound” as Lindsey-Hogg called it

ugh that phone call i hate it so much like he really wanted all that kept private & it's soooo one-sided like we don't see anything davies said, where he was leading him or not, what he was cutting out... it's just not good journalism, first off, but it's also just so disrespectful

but for the content like....... i think he was really twisted up and in a bad place. it was what, barely 3 months out from john's death? i don't really take Anything he said in that interview at face value like even if he had said "me and john used to fuck like rabbits" in it i would take it with a grain of salt lmao

but anyway re the wound...

i think it's important to note again that these are all fragments of what he said and not like professionally recorded- just written down while they were on the phone.

but i do think there were a lot of things that hurt john about the way paul had been behaving for years (& vice versa) that have nothing to do with their potential sexual/romantic relationship on the surface but i think it was all sort of tangled up. songwriting, friendship, sex- same thing, in what started as a great way and ended up pretty disastrous.

when john talks about the things paul did that pissed him off, he tends to bring up things like this incident w eleanor rigby:

and then naturally w the divorce he tends to bring up the money aspect, paul announcing the break by releasing mccartney and that whole scheduling conflict, paul's treatment of yoko & john's relationship...

i think what's Most Likely, to me, is that:

things started to strain around '65 with john & george doing lsd together and paul turning them down (& them subsequently being dicks to him about it And going off to write she said she said together, which is as far as i know the first time either paul or john actively wrote with someone else like that).

'66 brought the end of touring, john's increasing reliance on lsd to cope, being separated for months for the first time in years when john filmed how i won the war, paul working on the family way (which john later said was hurtful), and paul settling into the sort of "swinging london life" while john was stuck in the suburbs with a family. i think they were, for once, doing things very separately. they had separate lives, when they'd been joined at the hip since at least hamburg. john even later referred to it as them "living together" (in the context of, he lived with paul so he wrote with paul, he lives with yoko so he writes with yoko).

'67 just continued that snowball of Bad bc while they were very close for sgt pepper's, you also have brian dying and paul just continuing to push them all to work on mmt. and i can only imagine the types of insensitive things he was doing similar to that eleanor rigby account without realizing they were hurtful. it's also when john & cynthia's relationship was really starting to deteriorate. paul also proposed to jane in december.

'68 ofc had india, but i GENUINELY do not think anything super crazy happened there. i think they were sober for the first time in ages, meditating for hours on end, and just Thinking. with everything that came before it, i wouldn't be shocked if part of that thinking was about their relationship and where it was going and the beatles in general. the get back scene really reads waaaay too light-hearted to me to be indicative of any serious issues- they're smiling and joking around and paul at Most seems a lil uncomfortable that john's bringing this up in public. which just honestly makes me think that if that Was referencing them fucking, it was just a regular thing. and john was maybe bringing it up to try and poke a bit at that close relationship they had lost along the way. i think paul leaving early did probably set off his abandonment issues a bit, even if it was pre-planned, but i don't think enough to "hurt him worse than anyone ever has"

the rest of '68........ shit was a mess. you have john leaving cynthia for yoko, the cursed apple nyc trip, john & yoko staying with paul (which REALLY would not have happened if there was some huge rejection that made john hate paul), paul doing enough coke to kill a fucking whale, francie, jane & paul splitting, paul meeting linda and getting serious with her, the white album disaster, john starting to rely on yoko as a creative partner where he hadn't let anyone else in before like that aside from paul... just a nightmare all around and i think they probably, if they had a sexual relationship, let it fall to the wayside around this time. they're both busier, they're both in relationships they're actually sort of committed to now, they're growing up, etc.

but by '69, with get back specifically, there's a ton of tension there ofc- but they're still joking around and close and loving in a way that doesn't jive with the wound being some big argument i don't think. i think whatever happened, it happened unsaid. which leads to both of them being hurt, neither of them knowing how badly they hurt the other person, paul scrambling to figure out what he possibly did wrong to hurt john more than anyone in his life... like, to him, in this scenario here i find most likely, it would've just been a slow and meandering end to their relationship, sexual or otherwise, that culminated in john asking for a divorce and then everyone freaking out when he was the one to make that official. so it wouldn't fit with john saying he hurt him more than anyone. for john, i think he'd started feeling terrified as early as '65 that paul was going to leave him- paul was better than him (gotta love yesterday), paul didn't need him, paul was thriving in london while he was stuck in his house depressed and high, etc etc. all these god awful thoughts that only came true, in his view, when paul just let him go. i think john wanted a fight and i think paul thought that handling things peacefully would save the relationship. i don't think either of them really got each other at all, in that instance, and it fucked them.

George Harrison visiting Bob Dylan in Woodstock, New York (Nov. 1968)

I heard someone walk into the room and, assuming it was Barry Imhoff or Gary Shafner, I kept pounding away at the keys of the electric typewriter.

“Hi,” Bob Dylan said, pulling a chair over to my desk and slumping into it. “So have you seen George lately?”

Startled by his voice, it took a few seconds for me to respond. “Not since his tour a year ago,” I said.

“I really like George,” he said, reaching into his jacket and pulling out a cigarette.

I nodded my head. I liked George, too.

“So, I was thinking about it. I remember you from the Isle of Wight.” He turned his head and smiled at me, sideways. “I can’t believe I forgot my harmonicas. That was cool when you flew in on the helicopter.”

“Yeah, that was pretty cool,” I agreed. I wasn’t really sure how to talk to Bob, so I just followed his lead.

“That was a weird show,” he said. “I hadn’t performed in a long time, and I was pretty nervous.”

“You didn’t seem nervous,” I said, hoping to reassure him.

“Yeah?” he turned his head to the side and looked at me, narrowing his eyes, measuring my honesty. Then he seemed to relax. “Well, that’s good. But I sure felt it.”

He laughed, then, almost shyly, and averted his eyes. “I’m glad you’re on the tour,” he said. “Any friend of George’s is a friend of mine.”

- Chris O’Dell, “Santana (September - October 1975)”, Miss O’Dell: My Hard Days and Long Nights with The Beatles, The Stones, Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton, and the Women They Loved

Interviewer: When you look back on all of that now, how does it seem to you?

Pattie Boyd: It feels as if, I’m living, a second life now. That was such a- almost like a fantasy life.

Interviewer: Do you miss it?

Pattie Boyd: Sometimes I do. Yes.

we as a fandom really underexamine how often crushing loneliness is a recurring theme in paul’s songwriting

Beatles in Colour → George Harrison in ORANGE & YELLOW For @radgeorgie

Oh my god it's John

Hello!

I'm looking for a section of the lunchroom tape (from the Get Back sessions) where John says something to Paul along the lines of "I mean, you've only recently realised what you were doing to me". Does that ring any bells?

You seem to know your way around amoralto's archives, and I'm not having any luck searching there :)

Thanks!

Hi, @i-am-the-oyster (love the name, by the way)!

I think you might be referring to this section of the Lunchroom Tape:

JOHN: And it’s just that, you know. It’s only this year that you’ve suddenly realised, like who I am, or who he is, or anything like that.

I find this bit of the conversation particularly impenetrable; and all the more fascinating because of it. It's here that we have this famed exchange (whose full meaning still eludes me):

JOHN: Because you – ’cause you’ve suddenly got it all, you see. PAUL: Mm. JOHN: I know that, because of the way I am, like when we were in Mendips, like I said, “Do you like me?” or whatever it is. I’ve always – uh, played that one. PAUL: [laughs nervously] Yes. JOHN: So. PAUL: Uh, I’d been watching, I’d been watching. I’d been watching the picture. YOKO: Go back to George. What are we going to do about George?

I encourage folks to go listen to the full audio and transcript and try their hand at decoding it!

I don't know if it's accessible on the mobile app, but @amoralto has a separate page with links to all the Get Back excerpts, listed in chronological order. It's a pretty neat resource if you want to just binge through interesting little snippets from these sessions (some that made it onto the documentary, and many that didn't).

To those curious about the Lunchroom Tape in particular, here's a (play)list of all the transcribed excerpts, with @amoralto's descriptions for context:

We Have Egos

Over lunch, the remaining Beatles touch on George’s resignation from the band on the 10th, as well as a group meeting held the previous day which ended in less than desirable circumstances (with George leaving the room, frustrated by John’s persistently Yoko-filtered standard of communication). While Yoko contends that it would be easy for John (and Paul) to regain George’s favour, John points out that this is a more deeply-rooted issue than it may seem, compounded over the years by John and Paul’s treatment of George and his defaulted status within the group. Upon this problem of overriding egos, however, Paul suggests (passive-aggressively) that it isn’t just the Lennon-and-McCartney tandem that is causing George upset and consternation. 

Jealousy For You

As the problem of George’s current resignation from the band is discussed, John makes it about him and Paul wonders what it’s all worth.

The Way We All Feel Guilty About Our Relationship To Each Other

John contends with how the force of his partnership with Paul and his relationship with Yoko has negatively affected George and perhaps directly contributed to George’s walkout on the group three days prior.

Cabbage

During a discussion on how the rest of the group should move forward after George’s departure on the 10th, John wonders if they should get George back at all, suggesting his role as a Beatle is replaceable (unlike his own or Paul’s), and likens this unkindly to how Ringo first replaced Pete Best. Paul notes that John has been the top buck in getting himself heard (and getting his way) since the inception of the group (which John protests) and quickly reassures Ringo when he wryly declares himself to be little more than rabbit food for the group. Paul admits that both he and John have done one over on George, albeit unconsciously as an effect of the competition and unaware of how it may have hurt George in the process, but John argues that he’s known since early childhood how manipulative he himself can be, and has tried to curb it to little avail.

What You Are

In the middle of a personal discussion with John and Ringo about the band, its tenuous future, and their relationships with one another, Paul (in response to John’s admission of insecurity in the face of external pressures from the public and media to perform) is emphatic about his faith in them and their abilities and contends that whatever interpersonal problems they have can be resolved, for what their music is worth.

Working At A Relationship

While Yoko and Paul conduct their own conversation with each other, Linda talks to John about the inevitable difficulties any relationship faces - even in the context of a musical partnership - and why it doesn’t prove the relationship itself is an expired one. John (inexplicably or not) laments that the White Album doesn’t sound like the genuine, inspired band collaboration they achieved in the past. 

You've Got To Blame Yourself

As Paul encourages an unconfident Ringo to go ahead with his plans to record a solo LP, John hedgingly brings up his own apprehensions about following his instincts (especially when he’s not even sure what he really wants to do). In their inimitable and emotionally non-committal fashion, John and Paul engage in metaphors about intentions, conveying these intentions in actions, and how these actions may be conveyed by those who see it. (Basically: what John and Paul talk about when they talk about love.)

How Much More Have I Done Towards Helping You Write?

John and Paul have an obfuscating conversation about their songwriting partnership and creative process, which has been incapacitated by a lack of direction, misplaced (misread) intentions, and the unmet (unrealised) expectations they’ve inflicted upon each other. (In other words: issues. And some projecting of issues onto George, for good measure.)

What We're All About

In the midst of a personal discussion about working together within the band, John tries to explain the disconnect in their process, and why he can’t envision their songs the way Paul can. As both John and Paul circle around the issues of honest communication and (living up to) each other’s expectations, they eventually project onto George bring George into the quandary of the Lennon-McCartney partnership. 

trying to find a certain quote and instead I have to find paul calling john the "most loveable crazy dude (he's) ever met" I want to be dead

geooooorge... geoooorgggeeeeeee....

Ok, here it is. We've had the 'insane things Paul has said about John' list, now here's 'insane things John has said about Paul'*

*Note: Some of these are ‘John said to me’ quotes rather than words from John himself, so take these ones with a grain of salt.

And because so much of John’s Paul-induced insanity reflected in his actions, some (dis)honourable mentions…

Cutting up a girl's clothes and calling her a whore for sleeping with Paul (from the Beatles Anthology book)

Being mean to Jane when Paul first meets her

Defending Paul after the LSD controversy time and time again

Writing 'I'm always perfect' on a photo of Paul and 'funeral' on a photo of Paul & Linda's wedding

Getting upset about Too Many People and writing How Do You Sleep in response

Mocking the Ram photo with a pig

Using the 'Let Me Roll It' riff in Beef Jerky

Having a fight with Yoko and immediately running off to Paris

Other icebergs…

Insane things Paul has said about John

McLennon - by @frodolives

Paul McCartney - by @frodolives

Sources, full quotes and some others that wouldn't fit under the cut!

"If I can't have a fight with my best friend, I don't know who I can have a fight with" - The Mike Douglas Show, 1972

"Things are still the same between us. He was and still is my closest friend, except for Yoko" - 1971 interview

"He said to me, 'Artie, you worked with your Paul recently … I'm getting calls … that my Paul wants to work with me and I'm thinking about it … How did it go when you worked with Paul?'" - Art Garfunkel anecdote (submitted by @didwemeetsomewherebefore)

Mintz: There's one name that has not come up in our discussion [...] Paulie. John: Yes, we did! We got Paul in it. And I object to that 'Paulie' business - 1973 interview (submitted by @didwemeetsomewherebefore)

"If anybody said anything bad about Paul, John'd take a swing at you. He'd say, "You can't talk about Paul like that". Paul was his best buddy" - Alice Cooper anecdote

"I'm entitled to call Paul what I want to, and vice versa; it's in our family. But if somebody else calls him names I won't take it." - 1974 interview

"Paul was one of the most innovative bass players that ever played bass. And half the stuff that’s going on now is directly ripped off from his Beatle period." - 1980 interview

After a late lunch, Linda launched into a long paean to the joys of living in England. When she was finished, she turned to John and said, “Don’t you miss England?” “Frankly,” John replied, “I miss Paris.” - Loving John by May Pang (1983) (submitted by @big-barn-bed)

"The Boulevard Saint-Germainegreer shone in all its springbok glory as he stepped lightly on some French loafers toward the waiting arms of Comrade Amie" (and a lot more) - Skywriting by Word of Mouth

"My cheri my pau pau, do you remember when we were at a cafe on the left bank? You could not find your garter? Because it was on your little prod" - John's song demo (submitted by @thewalrusespublicist)

"I'm just like everybody else, Harry, I fell for Paul's looks." - Harry Nilsson anecdote (submitted by @thegirlwiththeaxe)

"He also looked like Elvis. I dug him." - John in Hunter Davies’ The Beatles: The Authorised Biography (1968) (submitted by @lesbianjohnlennon)

As the limousine edged through the screaming fans outside the cinema, John said laconically, 'Push Paul out first, he's the prettiest.' - Victor Spinetti, Up Front: His Strictly Confidential Autobiography (2006) (submitted by @fishfingerpies)

I could even hear what they were saying off-mike; ‘Oh Paul, you’re so cute tonight.’ was met with the reply 'Sod off, Lennon.’ - Joan Baez anecdote (submitted by @rabiessnail )

'Are those jeans tight, Paul?' That was John. 'What do you mean tight?' 'I can see your suspender belt through 'em and your stockings. You've got ladders in them.' Victor Spinetti, Up Front: His Strictly Confidential Autobiography (2006)

John: It sounds a vaguely good idea but I wouldn’t have my wife or any of me friends wearing them. Paul: Well, you’ve had us wearing them. John: I know, Paulie, but you’re so well-built - 1964 interview

Ringo: And I Love Her, yeah I love that one …and the way you sing it knocks me out, man. John: And the way that camera goes over your head… I thought, 'hello' - 1964 interview

"Meeting Paul was just like two people meeting.  Not falling in love or anything.  Just us.  It went on.  It worked." - John in Hunter Davies’ The Beatles: The Authorised Biography (1968) (submitted by @i-am-the-oyster, @thewalrusespublicist)

"Hey! Did you dream about me last night? …Very strong dream. We both dreamt about it. It was amazing! Different dreams, you know, but I thought you must’ve been there…. I was touching you" - Let It Be sessions, 1969 (submitted by @adriennefrombrooklyn)

"We do need each other alot. When we used to get together after a month off, we used to be embarrassed about touching each other. We’d do an elaborate handshake just to hide the embarrassment… or we did mad dances. Then we got to hugging each other. Now we do the Buddhist bit… arms around. It’s just saying hello, that’s all." - - John in Hunter Davies’ The Beatles: The Authorised Biography (1968)

Houghton: How do you feel about Paul McCartney now? John: Uh, we’re – haha. [laughs] This is like a joke: “We’re just good friends.” We’re – we’re pretty close now, like I was telling you before. - 1974 interview

"Nobody ever said anything about Paul having a spell over me, when I was with him for a long time. Or me having a spell over Paul. They didn’t think that was abnormal, two guys together. […] Why didn’t anybody ever say, “How come those guys don’t split up? I mean, what’s going on backstage? I mean, what is that Paul and John business? Why – you know, how can they be together so long?” - 1980 interview

"When I’m up against the wall, Paul, you’ll find I do my best" - Let It Be sessions, 1969 (submitted by @iiiiiiits-m)

"The plus is that your best friend, also, can hold you without… I mean, I’m not a homosexual, or we could have had a homosexual relationship and maybe that would have satisfied it, with working with other male artists." - 1972 interview (submitted by @big-barn-bed)

“When we sang together, Paul and I would share the same microphone. I’d be close enough to kiss him […] So we’d be playing these concerts, in front of thousands of people, but the only thing I could see was Paul’s face. He was always there next to me – I could always feel his presence. It’s what I remember most about those concerts.” - Elliot Mintz, 'We All Shine On: John, Yoko & Me' (2024)

Paul: There’s a story. There’s another one – ‘Don’t Let Me Down’. “Oh darling, I’ll never let you down.” Like we’re doing— John: Yeah. It’s like you and me are lovers. Paul: [reserved] Yeah. [pause] John: We’ll just have to camp it up for those two. Paul: Yeah. Well, I’ll be wearing my skirt for the show, anyway. - Let It Be sessions, 1969 (submitted by @alienoriana)

"The early stuff – the Hard Day’s Night period, I call it – the early period, was the early equi– se– what I’m – what I’m equating it to is the sexual equivalent of the beginning of a relationship, of people in love. And the Sgt. Pepper-Abbey Road period was the period of maturity in the relationship. And maybe had we gone on together, maybe something more interesting would have come out of it." - 1980 interview (submitted by @thewalrusespublicist)

"I mean, there were quite a few women he’d obviously had that I never knew about. God knows when he was doing it, but he must have been doing it" - 1972 interview

“It’s just handy to fuck your best friend. That’s what it is. And once I resolved the fact that it was a woman as well, it’s all right. We go through the trauma of life and death every day so it’s not so much of a worry about what sex we are anymore. I’m living with an artist who’s inspiring me to work." - 1971 interview (note: I know the 'best friend' here is Yoko, but the implications, baby...)

"He rang up and said he’d got this job and couldn’t come to the group. So I told him on the phone, “Either come or you’re out.” So he had to make a decision between me and his dad then, and in the end he chose me. But it was a long trip." - 1971 interview

"This song was written by an old estranged fiancé of mine called Paul" - Introducing 'I Saw Her Standing There' at Madison Square Garden, 1974 (submitted by @didwemeetsomewherebefore)

"The person I actually picked as my partner, who I’d recognised had talent, and I could get on with, was Paul" - 1980 interview (submitted by @crepesuzette2023)

"It would not have been the same. It would have been a different thing. But maybe it wouldn’t either. Maybe it was a marriage that had to end. Some marriages don’t get through that – that phase. It’s hard to speculate about what would have been." - 1980 interview (submitted by @thewalrusespublicist)

"I was living with Paul then, so I wrote with him. It’s whoever you’re living with. He writes with Linda. He’s living with her. It’s just natural" - 1971 interview

"It's like when the lawyers come into the divorce, you know? And that makes it a whole different ball game, you know… 'speak to my lawyer'" - 1973 interview

"It was never a legal deal between Paul and I. It was a deal we made when we were fifteen or sixteen, when we decided to write together, that we’d put both our names on ’em, you know." - 1980 interview

"And “go out and get her,” you know, and forget everything else. So subconsciously I take it that he was saying, “Go ahead.” On a conscious level, he didn’t want me to go ahead. So subconsciously, he… The angel in him was saying, “Bless you.” The devil in him didn’t like it at all. Because he didn’t want to lose his partner." - John talking about Hey Jude, 1980 interview

"When I slagged off the Beatle thing in the papers, it was like divorce pangs, and me being me it was blast this and fuck that" - 1974 interview

"And it’s really lawyers that make… divorces nasty. You know, if there was a nice ceremony like getting married, for divorce, then it would be much better. Even divorce of business partners. Because it wouldn’t be so nasty." - 1971 interview

"It’s like asking a divorced couple, “What day was it that – that decided you to – that the marriage wasn’t going well?” I didn’t – there was no date." - 1976 interview

"I’ve compared it to a marriage a million times, and I hope it’s… understandable for people that aren’t married, or any relationship. It was a long relationship." - 1976 interview

"I’ve only selected to work with – for more than a one night stand, say with an odd thing with [David] Bowie, or an odd thing with Elton [John], or anybody who was hanging around – two people. Paul McCartney, and Yoko Ono. Okay?" - 1980 interview

"I seen through junkies, I been through it all, I seen religion from Jesus to Paul" - 'I Found Out' lyrics, 1970 (submitted by @johns-prince)

“I’m glad that’s over. I feel like I’ve been keeping a vigil for him. Not that I care, you understand.” - John, according to John Green, Dakota Days (1983)

"One girl very shyly gave George a button badge which said ‘George for PM.’ ‘Why would Paul McCartney want you?’ said John to George.” - Hunter Davies’ The Beatles: The Authorised Biography (1968) (submitted by @didwemeetsomewherebefore)

John: "I was trying to put it 'round that I was gay, you know-- I thought that would throw them off… dancing at all the gay clubs in Los Angeles, flirting with the boys… but it never got off the ground." Q: "I think I've only heard that lately about Paul." John: "Oh, I've had him, he's no good." - 1975 interview (submitted by @johns-prince)

And I had a little upstairs, an unusable upstairs, and I kept a radio up there. Very faint. All of a sudden John said, "Is that Paul?" I thought it was somebody he knew named Paul. I didn't see anybody walk by. I said, "No." On the radio, Paul McCartney. We never mentioned anything about The Beatles. This little, low sound you could barely hear, he picked it right up. So, it just made me aware of how much attuned he was with The Beatles after they broke up.. - Gary Tracy, John's optometrist

John: "I've always thought there was this underlying thing in Paul's 'Get Back.' When we were in the studio recording it, every time he sang the line 'Get back to where you once belonged,' he'd look at Yoko." - 1980 interview (submitted by @johns-prince)

But in mid-January 1973 Lennon and Ono quarrelled publicly at another party. “I wish I was back with Paul,” Lennon reportedly said. - Peter Doggett, You Never Give Me Your Money: The Battle for the Soul of The Beatles. (2009) (submitted by @notgrungybitchin)

'From time to time John would say to me ''I wonder what Paul is thinking about, right now.'' I said John, I've only met him a couple of times in my life you know … I have no idea. And John would ask ''Do you think he thinks about me at all?''' - Elliot Mintz (submitted by @thewalrusespublicist )

“He was always saying, ‘I wonder what Paul is doing.’ When John and I were together, and this is about a week or two before our relationship ended, I remember him saying, ‘Do you think I should write with Paul again?’ I said, ‘Absolutely. You should because you want to. The two of you as solo performers are good, but together you can’t be beaten.” - May Pang

“Yeah, I miss Paul a lot. It’s been a year since I’ve seen him. He came over with Linda to me place in New York. Course I’d love to see him again. He’s an old friend, isn’t he?” - 1974 interview

"I never thought we’d come to that, because I didn’t think we were that stupid. But we were naïve enough to let people come between us." - 1971 interview

‘Paul? My dear one’ - 1980 interview (submitted by @didwemeetsomewherebefore)

"I’ve read cracks about, “Oh, the Beatles sang ‘All You Need Is Love’, but it didn’t work for them,” but nothing will ever break the love we have for each other." - 1972 interview

'"I just saw a girl who said she saw John Lennon walking down the street in New York wearing a button that said, "I love Paul." She asked him: "Why are you wearing an 'I love Paul' button?", and he said: "Because I love Paul." - Harry Nilsson anecdote (submitted by @bluewater9)